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Are you lads and lasies tired of the BS about Russia??

67 posts
  1. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    12/20/2016 11:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: Clay,

    Thank you for making my point that voter fraud is inconsequential.

    From your link:

    "In all, the analysis showed 119 dead people have voted a total of 229 times in Chicago in the last decade.

    Jim Allen, a city election board spokesman, says a majority of those dead voters were most likely clerical errors, involving family members with the same names and addresses."

    So, if the majority of those 229 votes were clerical errors, that leaves no more than 114 possible fraudulent votes over a decade. a decade that included three presidential elections, probably five senate and congressional elections, plus all the local stuff.

    Chicago has about 1.5 million active registered voters.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

    If they voted in five elections at a conservative turnout of 50%, then there were something like 3.75 million votes cast in Chicago over the past ten years, of which maybe 114 are phonies. That doesn't sound like a big problem, I'm sure the honest vote counts had more error than that. Besides, there's no way of knowing who those fraud votes were for, they could have been an even split or gone Republican, you just assume otherwise.


    What I meant to say when I said voter fraud is rare is that voter fraud is rare. It only happens when it happens. Which is rare. Not a lot. You're welcome.



  2. Keith Fellenstein
    Keith Fellenstein avatar
    0 posts
    12/21/2016 10:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: Meanwhile, here's one for you, Trump at a rally in Las Vegas February 23, 2016, states, "I love the poorly educated."

    That's your own guy admitting it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0


    Now who can't let it go? Do you want people not to love the poorly educated? Is there something wrong with the poorly educated or loving the poorly educated? Remember, poorly educated does not mean stupid!



  3. Trevor Monreal
    Trevor Monreal avatar
    5 posts
    12/21/2016 1:12 PM
    Keith Fellenstein said:
    Now who can't let it go? Do you want people not to love the poorly educated? Is there something wrong with the poorly educated or loving the poorly educated? Remember, poorly educated does not mean stupid!

    We can love the poorly educated...as long as they're not white.
    We can't love white anybody/thing.
    That would be offensive
    They are to be despised...
    Just axe MTV News



  4. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/22/2016 9:12 AM
    Heard a report yesterday that really shows he value of the electoral college. Press has made a big deal of Hillary winning the popular vote by over 3 million. Subtract out California and New York, just 2 states, and Trump wins the popular vote by 3 million. I think that shows how representative our system really is. I am not sure anyone, regardless of party, would want two states controlling every election if we just relied on the popular vote. Statistics can be made to provide nearly any result you want but it shows that 2 states could control every election if it were not for the representation created by the electoral college. That is much bigger news than Russians not impacting voting day but supposedly trying to influence the election.



  5. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    12/22/2016 1:12 PM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Heard a report yesterday that really shows he value of the electoral college. Press has made a big deal of Hillary winning the popular vote by over 3 million. Subtract out California and New York, just 2 states, and Trump wins the popular vote by 3 million. I think that shows how representative our system really is. I am not sure anyone, regardless of party, would want two states controlling every election if we just relied on the popular vote. Statistics can be made to provide nearly any result you want but it shows that 2 states could control every election if it were not for the representation created by the electoral college. That is much bigger news than Russians not impacting voting day but supposedly trying to influence the election.


    I think this is a typical straw man argument, if anything, those two states should maybe have more of a say since they probably provide the most tax revenue to the US. Yet they are used as examples this election cycle as examples that their votes shouldn't count, to justify the election of Mr. Trump.

    As I understand the main purpose of the Electoral College is, to provide a voice for all of the states. Yet in my opinion of the "Winner Take All" does basically allow a handful of states to decide our outcomes. In 2000 it was Florida, this year it was Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Usually Ohio is in there. While as I mentioned the Electorial College provides a voice for all states, if all states did similar to Nebraska and Maine and proportion their EC votes out based on percentages of the state's voters wishes, maybe it would encourage more voters to participate and it might even help break the gridlock by the two parties, allowing some of the 3rd party candidates to show some viability and maybe help them on the local levels. Would it have changed the outcomes of this election? Most likely not, unless it would have forced the Clinton campaign to run a smarter campaign and get out and visit more voters.

    As it is set up now, both candidates skipped campaigning in states they knew they had won or lost before voting ever began, (or thought they had more of an advantage than they thought they did, just goes to show how flawed Ms. Clinton's campaign was). I remember candidate Obama coming to Springfield Missouri, even though he didn't stand a snowball's chance for our Electoral College votes, where we would elect a rock with an R next to it, before a living and breathing democrat) Maybe his visit helped in other Midwest states where the voting would have been closer, just look at counties in Minn, and Michigan that had voted for President Obama in 2012, and voted for Trump in 2016. Of course some of that was a smaller voter turnout, or from what I heard, in Michigan, where people voted on all other issues and voted for neither Presidential Candidate, in a larger number than the difference in the vote totals between them.

    But I just want to keep pointing this out, because I keep hearing it, "If you take away California's votes, she doesn't win the popular vote totals" I'm tired of that, you are citizens just like the rest of us. Everyone's vote matters, no matter if we use the EC or not.

    Just my two cents.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  6. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/23/2016 1:12 AM
    The population of California is 39.1 million and New York has 19.8 million, combined about 60 million out of a U.S. population of 320 million, so together they would control less than 20% of a popular vote and they would not decide an election themselves. It's really pretty simple arithmetic.

    Look at it this way, California hasd 55 electoral votes, or one for every 710,000 citizens. New York with 29 electorals gets one for every 682,000. A place like Wyoming on the other hand, with a population of 586,00 and 3 electorals gets one for every 195,000 people.

    It's inherently unfair. Wyoming voters count more than California voters, like they get extra credit for the empty space around them.

    It's also a disincentive for people to vote. If you're living in a state that's sure to go red or blue you can feel like your vote doesn't matter, it happens to me. But if you think that nation-wide it's going to be a close election, then people are more likely to participate.

    This is not a partisan issue, or at least it shouldn't be to have fair elections.



  7. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    12/23/2016 9:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: The population of California is 39.1 million and New York has 19.8 million, combined about 60 million out of a U.S. population of 320 million, so together they would control less than 20% of a popular vote and they would not decide an election themselves. It's really pretty simple arithmetic.

    Look at it this way, California hasd 55 electoral votes, or one for every 710,000 citizens. New York with 29 electorals gets one for every 682,000. A place like Wyoming on the other hand, with a population of 586,00 and 3 electorals gets one for every 195,000 people.

    It's inherently unfair. Wyoming voters count more than California voters, like they get extra credit for the empty space around them.

    It's also a disincentive for people to vote. If you're living in a state that's sure to go red or blue you can feel like your vote doesn't matter, it happens to me. But if you think that nation-wide it's going to be a close election, then people are more likely to participate.

    This is not a partisan issue, or at least it shouldn't be to have fair elections.


    Thanks for the math lesson, it seems in politics, good solid, common math is never used.

    When we have only 50%-55% voter participation, there is a problem about why people are not voting that needs to be looked at. And of course in the primaries where we actually choose our candidates it's even less.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

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