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Are you lads and lasies tired of the BS about Russia??

67 posts
  1. David Brandenburg
    David Brandenburg avatar
    3 posts
    12/16/2016 11:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: I didn't say stupid, I said uneducated. There's a difference, I've learned.

    And I'm not making it up, Pew Research statistics on voters overall show college educated voters went for Hillary by a 9% margin, and those without a college degree went for Trump by 8%, but white voters with less than a college degree went for Trump by 39%.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... education/

    Trump won the election, now just wait and watch what happens once he's in office.


    That is a good idea Stephen, Let us wait and watch what happens. We are expecting great things. If we are wrong, feel free to crow. If we are right, we all benefit.



  2. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/16/2016 11:12 AM
    I'm not upset, and I never called any American voter "deplorable".

    If I'm right about Trump, there will be nothing for me to crow about.

    Merry Christmas.



  3. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    12/16/2016 12:12 PM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: We do know a few facts for sure. When you look at a red and blue map of the election, Hillary only won some big cities around the country. But how many states such as Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida that were Red but were basically a toss up, so lots of blue also, by no means did the republicans win a mandate. The democrat vote in New York alone was nearly enough to give her the popular vote difference. The map is almost totally red. So are you saying the democrats in New York vote mean less than say republican votes in Missouri? I think all these adds trying to overturn the electoral vote and all the blaming of Russia and everyone else is laughable. The electoral system worked out as it was designed, giving small states an equal chance to count.I agree to an extent that it worked, actually to a point, the small states are dictating too much of a voice, and I think I understand the electoral college's purpose, but the one issue I have with it is the winner take all portion, because my state in red, basically my vote for president doesn't mean anything if I'm voting blue, same for you if your voting red in NY or California. Chances are Trump still wins this one, but I would like to see some debate on the winner take all issue, and the need for independent groups drawing voting district lines to avoid gerrymandering. Guess that debate is for another thread. Many of us that didn't trust Obama's politics when he ran the first time voiced our disagreements but no marching in the streets or lunatic reactions to change it. We respected the process. I call BS on that one, where were you when the tea party was marching onto Washington, I have seen plenty of disparaging pictures of protest against President Obama, now if you want to talk about the riots, that is a different story, but by no means did opponents not march or protest, and let's not forget the elected officials I thought Liberal meant you were open minded. My feeling is so called liberals only want things there way! Speech is only free if it agrees with them!Have to call BS on this one too, there are people on both sides that refuse to open their minds and want it THEIR way, have you ever tried to have a debate with either groups on issues? It's ridiculous All that matters is power and they see it slipping away. Heaven forbid Trump does well like all of us hoped with Obama. Trump might have a harder time succeeding because of Republicans, I think he is smart enough to not repeal the ACA until the replacement is in, and Republicans can't agree among themselves on that one. He has pulled back on jailing Clinton, heck he's adding enough Wall Street types that probably learned how things work in the political world from Clinton in her speeches to them. I'll wait and see how he does. The liberal mantras may never work again if he succeeds. I do think we need to get off this labeling of liberal and conservatives, it really is keeping us divided, neither party will get in and compromise on issues because they can't let it look like the other party won.


    Just my two cents.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  4. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/16/2016 2:12 PM
    Mel, some good points but remember, it is the liberals acting like anarchists breaking windows and all that other nonsense. Tea party people were respectable for the most part, a few nut cases but they even cleaned up their own trash. No riots! My comment on the big cities is they are not the voice of the rest of America. If popular vote counted, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Atlanta, New York City and surrounds and Boston would decide every election. The old founders were no dummies. Conservatives have never been as out of control as liberals. You want an example of the speech issue, just look at the major college and universities. Liberals have tried to define what words we can and can't use. Sorry, nobody has a right to not be offended. Freedom of speech as long as you are not threatening or severely downgrading someone in public is far more important. Right now, if you don't speak or think the same, you are a bigot or one of the many phobes.



  5. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    12/17/2016 11:12 AM
    Back to the Topic at large.
    It would seem there is a consensus from your intelligence agencies that there was hacking done by the Russians. That should deeply concern you regardless of any effect it may have had or not had on the election. Having a President elect openly denying that intelligence is far more frightening.
    I personally think the guy is an idiot of absurd proportion, however he is your idiot to deal with.
    If he refuses to listen to his advisers, then I doubt he will have much interest in listening to the average American



  6. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    40 posts
    12/18/2016 8:12 PM
    Hi Larry;

    Can I go to Canada get a driver's license and vote in Canada's elections?

    You may enter the USA - go to many states - get a driver's license and vote in our Presidential election.

    Also, if you are in jail for committing a felony you may be eligible to vote in some states.

    When I voted, I was checked off by a clerk - handed a ballot and went into a booth - filled the proper circles up - handed the ballot to another clerk - address checked off again and ballot put in a machine - never making the internet - including the whole town.

    So, who gives a darn if Russia was able to hack into our voting process.

    Heck, we were just hacked into many of our stores and were talking millions of credit cards!!

    About listening to advisors or advisers - most of them don't know what the hell they're talking about.

    Furthermore, don't call my president-elect an idiot.

    Do you have 15 million illegals in Canada? If not - why not!

    OH!, by the way we are still looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East told to us by the CIA about 15 years ago.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Nedham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  7. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/19/2016 1:12 AM
    Ronald, Ronald, Ronald,

    Nobody is saying the Russians hacked the voting booths. The probelm is they hacked to DNC computers in an effort to indirectly affect the election results by releasing correspondence damaging to the party. Whether or not it had an effect on the results is a moot point - the election stands - but it is an existential threat to our democracy if foreign governments are allowed to meddle in the election process and the commander-in-chief refuses even to consider the possibility.

    You are saying that some advisors and intelligence reports in the past heve been erroneous, so therefore Trump shouldn't listen to anybody? The CIA is under new management, it's not the same people as fifteen years ago. They were way off the mark about Iraq, but they've been right about other stuff - they found Bin Laden.

    Anyway, Trump is in a position now to name his own advisors so if they don't know what they're talking about it will be his fault.

    Where are non-citizens allowed to vote in federal elections?

    You're right about one thing though, Trump is not an idiot, or he wouldn't have managed to become rich and powerful. He is however, a narcissistic, hypersensitive, vindictive, mendacious, bloviating, egomaniac that poses the greatest threat to the world order today, and he is my president elect, too, much to my dismay.



  8. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    12/19/2016 8:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: Ronald, Ronald, Ronald,

    "...that poses the greatest threat to the world order today, and he is my president elect, too, much to my dismay."


    That's about as bloated as some of Trump's rhetoric, don't ya think? I'm thinking you may want to look a bit south and east.



  9. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    12/19/2016 9:12 AM
    Ronald Kirkman said: Hi Larry;

    Can I go to Canada get a driver's license and vote in Canada's elections? Not that I am aware of.I wouldn't have the interest to go through all of that

    Also, if you are in jail for committing a felony you may be eligible to vote in some states.Can't speak to that

    When I voted, I was checked off by a clerk - handed a ballot and went into a booth - filled the proper circles up - handed the ballot to another clerk - address checked off again and ballot put in a machine - never making the internet - including the whole town. We have a paper ballot system as well and it seems to work quite well.

    So, who gives a darn if Russia was able to hack into our voting process.You should because if they can do that easily, they can also do other nasty things

    Heck, we were just hacked into many of our stores and were talking millions of credit cards!!

    About listening to advisors or advisers - most of them don't know what the hell they're talking about. They know a lot more that a game show host does about world affairs

    Furthermore, don't call my president-elect an idiot. I didn't. I called him an idiot of absurd proportion. I can do that. I do it up here as well as I see fit. Contrary to Steve O, I don't see him as being smart just because he didn't manage to blow all of the money daddy set him up with

    Do you have 15 million illegals in Canada? If not - why not! Because that would represent about 40 percent of our overall population. I wouldn't doubt we have a good number but the last thing an illegal wants to do is draw any attention to themselves. Voting illegally does that

    OH!, by the way we are still looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East told to us by the CIA about 15 years ago. If you actually look at the intelligence given to GWB the president did a lot of picking and choosing of what he went with. The record show that quite clearly. In spite of any flaws George had, I think he was a decent human being. I don't see that decency in Trump. I agree with Steve Os descriptive words.


    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Nedham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  10. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/19/2016 10:12 AM
    As we should do with every President, we should give him a chance to perform and judge the results of the performance. Trump is definitely a different breed but look at what politicians and business as usual have done to our country. I am going to hold judgement until I see what he accomplishes. He may not seem as nice a guy as Obama or either Bush. Shoot, Bill Clinton may have been the one you would most likely sit down an have a beer with so we have had likeable people in the office. Maybe we will see different results instead of government as usual. I for one, certainly hope so. Talk is cheap but lets see the results.



  11. Ventola Steven M
    Ventola Steven M avatar
    12/19/2016 10:12 AM
    If any of my conservative friends haven't figured out by now, liberals can't be reasoned with. So, ignore them.
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l3vQX2jMK ... source.gif



  12. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    12/19/2016 12:12 PM
    Steven M Ventola said: If any of my conservative friends haven't figured out by now, liberals can't be reasoned with. So, ignore them.
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l3vQX2jMK ... source.gif

    Steven, it goes both ways
    I consider myself a fiscal conservative and always vote that way. Social conservatism on the other hand is repugnant to me and any conservatives up here have realized that for the most part have set it aside. Spend my money efficiently and don't tell me how to think. I think that is what your forefathers had in mind
    The only thing worse than a social conservative is a young social conservative



  13. Tyler Daniels
    Tyler Daniels avatar
    1 posts
    12/19/2016 1:12 PM
    Nice to see that a forum for golf course superintendents has turned into Facebook.



  14. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    12/19/2016 1:12 PM
    Tyler, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, this is a political forum. This particular forum was developed so the faint of heart is not forced to wade thru spirited debate on their way to discussing which cell phone to purchase.



  15. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/19/2016 2:12 PM
    Tyler Daniels said: Nice to see that a forum for golf course superintendents has turned into Facebook.


    Is that your idea of contributing to the discussion? You could simply ignore threads that don't interest you, there are other topics for you if you don't like this one.

    Besides, the Facebook reference makes no sense whatsoever.



  16. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    12/19/2016 4:12 PM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said:
    Tyler Daniels said: Nice to see that a forum for golf course superintendents has turned into Facebook.


    Is that your idea of contributing to the discussion? You could simply ignore threads that don't interest you, there are other topics for you if you don't like this one.

    Besides, the Facebook reference makes no sense whatsoever.


    True, there isn't even a "like" button. Besides. I think there is a better chance for a spirited debate, and while it typically doesn't change anyone's view, there isn't any name calling and everyone seems to know how to spell Obama, as a side note, I would love for Facebook to have autocorrect when people try to miss spell politicians names, Trump would be a new one to add. (just to let my conservative friends know that I won't misspell Trump either like some of my liberal friends seem to do.)

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  17. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    12/19/2016 4:12 PM
    Facebook is where your kids post pictures of the grandkids so they don't have to take the time to email the pictures anymore.



  18. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    40 posts
    12/19/2016 10:12 PM
    Greetings;

    Well, another hurdle is over. Mr. Trump has the electoral votes much to the Democrats dismay.

    Mr. Clinton said that Mr. Trump got the angry white men to vote for him and that cost Hillary the election. I think the Democrats on the far left are running out of excuses why they lost the election. I wonder why no one has mentioned Hillary's Vice President. I don't think he helped any.

    Mrs. Michelle Obama states their is no hope anymore with Trump as President. And, you notice she does not say anything about the 820,000 illegal criminals in the U.S. that her husband is protecting.

    Mr. Steve Okula - California is one state where an illegal can show a license to vote.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham golf club
    Needham, MA



  19. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    12/19/2016 11:12 PM
    Ronald Kirkman said:

    Mr. Steve Okula - California is one state where an illegal can show a license to vote.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham golf club
    Needham, MA


    Nobody is required to show a driver's license, or any other form of ID, to vote in California. When you arrive at your polling place you just tell them your name and you get to vote. It's that easy. The only requirement is that you can read a name upside down and backwards while standing at the check-in table when they ask who you are, to help them find your name on the list.

    "That's me right there," as I point with my finger. "namwoB, reteP."



  20. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/20/2016 4:12 AM
    Well in any case, there have been precious few documented instances of voter fraud, it's something like one vote in 3 million. If a lot of people were doing as Pete says and voting under someone else's name then that would become clear when the real voter turned up.

    Don't you need to register to vote in California? Can you do that if you're not a citizen and have only a driver's license? California voter registration laws say it requires a social security number.

    I for one consider Hillary to now be irrelevant. She lost, she's history. I wish both Democrats and Republicans would move on and figure out how we're going to deal with the incoming administration rather than arguing about all the why's and wherefore's of a bygone election.



  21. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    12/20/2016 4:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: If a lot of people were doing as Pete says and voting under someone else's name then that would become clear when the real voter turned up.


    I agree the occurrence of voter fraud by the deceased is rare, but the "good old days" still exists in blue strongholds -
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/



  22. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/20/2016 6:12 AM
    Clay,

    Thank you for making my point that voter fraud is inconsequential.

    From your link:

    "In all, the analysis showed 119 dead people have voted a total of 229 times in Chicago in the last decade.

    Jim Allen, a city election board spokesman, says a majority of those dead voters were most likely clerical errors, involving family members with the same names and addresses."

    So, if the majority of those 229 votes were clerical errors, that leaves no more than 114 possible fraudulent votes over a decade. a decade that included three presidential elections, probably five senate and congressional elections, plus all the local stuff.

    Chicago has about 1.5 million active registered voters.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

    If they voted in five elections at a conservative turnout of 50%, then there were something like 3.75 million votes cast in Chicago over the past ten years, of which maybe 114 are phonies. That doesn't sound like a big problem, I'm sure the honest vote counts had more error than that. Besides, there's no way of knowing who those fraud votes were for, they could have been an even split or gone Republican, you just assume otherwise.



  23. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    12/20/2016 7:12 AM
    Two different stories, both in California.

    An octogenarian woman had more than 80 ballots, all with different names, mailed to her little apartment address. She lives alone.

    An illegal alien, without having even a driver's license, had a mail-in ballot with his name on it mailed to his address in California.

    Only the honest people report these incidences.

    http://www.dailybreeze.com/government-a ... -san-pedro



  24. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    12/20/2016 7:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: I wish both Democrats and Republicans would move on and figure out how we're going to deal with the incoming administration rather than arguing about all the why's and wherefore's of a bygone election.


    We're trying, Steve, but it's kind of hard to move on when all we hear from educated white people is that is was the uneducated white people who got Trump elected.



  25. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/20/2016 7:12 AM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: I wish both Democrats and Republicans would move on and figure out how we're going to deal with the incoming administration rather than arguing about all the why's and wherefore's of a bygone election.


    We're trying, Steve, but it's kind of hard to move on when all we hear from educated white people is that is was the uneducated white people who got Trump elected.


    You just won't let it go, will you Pete?



  26. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    12/20/2016 7:12 AM
    Not me Steve. Look at any news report or statistics. Like those you referenced not too many days ago. It's all we hear from the Left. Constantly.

    Okay, I'm done with it. Your turn.



  27. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/20/2016 7:12 AM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: Two different stories, both in California.

    An octogenarian woman had more than 80 ballots, all with different names, mailed to her little apartment address. She lives alone.

    An illegal alien, without having even a driver's license, had a mail-in ballot with his name on it mailed to his address in California.

    Only the honest people report these incidences.

    http://www.dailybreeze.com/government-a ... -san-pedro


    I fail to see your point.

    The article says those ballots were sent due to a government error. The people receiving them did not request them, did note vote with them, and have not been accused of any wrong-doing.

    There is a categorical difference between voter fraud and government incompetence.



  28. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    12/20/2016 8:12 AM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said:
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: Two different stories, both in California.

    An octogenarian woman had more than 80 ballots, all with different names, mailed to her little apartment address. She lives alone.

    An illegal alien, without having even a driver's license, had a mail-in ballot with his name on it mailed to his address in California.

    Only the honest people report these incidences.

    http://www.dailybreeze.com/government-a ... -san-pedro


    I fail to see your point.

    The article says those ballots were sent due to a government error. The people receiving them did not request them, did note vote with them, and have not been accused of any wrong-doing.

    There is a categorical difference between voter fraud and government incompetence.


    The article says that a government bureaucrat says that it might have been government incompetence, or something like that. I'm curious as to just how the "investigations" are going.

    The point is you're trusting that is was government incompetence. The real incompetence was more likely that the stack of ballots was meant for a different address, destined for someone who would actually use the ballots as planned. Or, more likely, that the person who was supposed to intercept the ballots at that address slept in too late again. Unfortunately, for them, an honest person found the stack.



  29. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    12/20/2016 9:12 AM
    I declare this discussion closed and settled.

    I'm moving on to Face Pages to see what that is all about



  30. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    12/20/2016 11:12 AM
    That's pure speculation about the ballots Pete. Like I said, even if there was fraudulent intent, we have no way of knowing which way they were going, blue or red. I don't get why those people worried about fraud always assume it must be in favor of the democrats.

    Meanwhile, here's one for you, Trump at a rally in Las Vegas February 23, 2016, states, "I love the poorly educated."

    That's your own guy admitting it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0



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