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Joe Pa... coward, criminal, accomplice???

51 posts
  1. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    7/23/2012 10:07 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS"]Penn State Punishments:

    PSU vacates all wins from 1998-2011. quote]

    30 years from now, when a former LSU Tiger footballl player is telling his grandkids how great things were when he played college football, having beat Penn State in the 2010 Capital One Bowl:

    "You shoulda' seen us Sonny Boy. We beat Penn Sate that game, and a heckuva' game it was."

    "Waddaya mean Grandpa? I just looked it up on Wikipedia IV from my ballpoint pen phone and it said that you guys lost to Penn State. The score was Penn State 19, you guys 17." I don't get it. How do you get a win out of that?"

    "Ya, I know what it said happened, but not that's not what really happened."

    "I still don't get it Grandpa. Did you guys win the game or not?"

    "Well, we didn't, but we did."

    "Huh?"

    "Penn State had to "vacate" the win."

    "What does that mean?"

    "That means that even though Penn State beat us fair and square on the field, we still get to say we won."

    "Is there supposed to be a lesson in that for me Grandpa? I mean, what happened that you lose on the field but get the win anyway?"

    "Well, there was this guy named JoePa. And he had a coach named Sandusky."

    "And what does that have to do with whether or not you really won or lost the game?

    "Go ask your Mom what's for dinner."


    "Vacating" wins is the stupidest punishment ever invented.



  2. Niemier Rick A
    Niemier Rick A avatar
    7/23/2012 11:07 PM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Penn State Punishments:

    PSU vacates all wins from 1998-2011. quote]

    30 years from now, when a former LSU Tiger footballl player is telling his grandkids how great things were when he played college football, having beat Penn State in the 2010 Capital One Bowl:

    "You shoulda' seen us Sonny Boy. We beat Penn Sate that game, and a heckuva' game it was."

    "Waddaya mean Grandpa? I just looked it up on Wikipedia IV from my ballpoint pen phone and it said that you guys lost to Penn State. The score was Penn State 19, you guys 17." I don't get it. How do you get a win out of that?"

    "Ya, I know what it said happened, but not that's not what really happened."

    "I still don't get it Grandpa. Did you guys win the game or not?"

    "Well, we didn't, but we did."

    "Huh?"

    "Penn State had to "vacate" the win."

    "What does that mean?"

    "That means that even though Penn State beat us fair and square on the field, we still get to say we won."

    "Is there supposed to be a lesson in that for me Grandpa? I mean, what happened that you lose on the field but get the win anyway?"

    "Well, there was this guy named JoePa. And he had a coach named Sandusky."

    "And what does that have to do with whether or not you really won or lost the game?

    "Go ask your Mom what's for dinner."


    "Vacating" wins is the stupidest punishment ever invented.


    According to the NCAA, opposing teams are not granted wins, as in a forfeit. The penalized school simply can't claim credit for that victory. For instance, in 2009, Penn State opened the season with a 31-7 rout of Akron. Penn State will lose credit for that win, but Akron cannot claim it as a victory.



  3. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    7/24/2012 6:07 AM
    Still the stupidest punishment ever invented.



  4. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/24/2012 8:07 AM
    You gotta think that the point of that effort was just to remove Paterno's name from the top of the list.

    Steve



  5. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    7/24/2012 10:07 AM
    Yeah Pete its not a win for us but a non win for them.........does that clear it up for you.



  6. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    7/24/2012 11:07 AM
    For you DMac.

    [img">http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w327/alohakane123/showeratPennstate.jpg[/img">



  7. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/24/2012 1:07 PM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: Still the stupidest punishment ever invented.


    Call me stupid but I think this was a brilliant punishment. Who cares who won or lost a bowl game? But keeping JoePa's legacy in check, especially since he most likely covered up the crimes to protect his chance at the all-time winning record, is justice.



  8. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    7/24/2012 2:07 PM
    Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: Still the stupidest punishment ever invented.


    Call me stupid but I think this was a brilliant punishment. Who cares who won or lost a bowl game? But keeping JoePa's legacy in check, especially since he most likely covered up the crimes to protect his chance at the all-time winning record, is justice.


    Stupid.

    Notice I didn't write Stupid:

    Nor can I call you without having your phone number :lol:

    Are we re-writing history here? Will the record books show all Penn State's games for the period as forfeits? I think all former players would want the record books to show wins and losses, and not have an asterisk next to the score, if there is even a score noted.

    The guy is dead, so I don't think anybody cares about his legacy really, in the long run. At least not his wins/losses legacy. He's got two legacies, I guess. Other coaches know he won those games and if they're looking to measure themselves against the winningest coaches of all times, they won't just all of a sudden forget about JoePa.

    JMO.



  9. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/24/2012 2:07 PM
    I was never a Joe Paterrno fan, but I still don't think the NCAA is the right body to sanction Penn State. The NCAA holds at least some of the responsibility for the culture that they say they want to reform. They get millions from these elite programs and for them to act like its now suddenly not right to hold the programs up as sacrosanct is just a tad hypocritical, don't you think?
    It is just my opinion, but I think that if the NCAA was to do anything, they should have just shut them down for a year and let them come back chastened, but better than ever. The way they have chosen will cripple the program for a decade or more and punishes people who had nothing to do with the crimes in question.

    Regards,

    Steve



  10. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/24/2012 4:07 PM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: Still the stupidest punishment ever invented.


    Call me stupid but I think this was a brilliant punishment. Who cares who won or lost a bowl game? But keeping JoePa's legacy in check, especially since he most likely covered up the crimes to protect his chance at the all-time winning record, is justice.


    Stupid.

    Notice I didn't write Stupid:

    Nor can I call you without having your phone number :lol:

    Are we re-writing history here? Will the record books show all Penn State's games for the period as forfeits? I think all former players would want the record books to show wins and losses, and not have an asterisk next to the score, if there is even a score noted.

    The guy is dead, so I don't think anybody cares about his legacy really, in the long run. At least not his wins/losses legacy. He's got two legacies, I guess. Other coaches know he won those games and if they're looking to measure themselves against the winningest coaches of all times, they won't just all of a sudden forget about JoePa.

    JMO.


    I guess we'll disagree. By vacating the wins, from here onward, when the discussion of greatest coaches of all-time comes up, JoePa's egregious mistake in covering up the crimes, and the impact it had on subsequent victims will never be forgotten. I don't think the NCAA could have allowed this tainted man to be atop the record book. They simply could not have allowed that to stand especially considering the timeline of events. Now, officially at least, he will not be considered the greatest coach of all-time And people do care about his legacy. History is a huge part of sports.



  11. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/24/2012 4:07 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: I was never a Joe Paterrno fan, but I still don't think the NCAA is the right body to sanction Penn State. The NCAA holds at least some of the responsibility for the culture that they say they want to reform. They get millions from these elite programs and for them to act like its now suddenly not right to hold the programs up as sacrosanct is just a tad hypocritical, don't you think?
    It is just my opinion, but I think that if the NCAA was to do anything, they should have just shut them down for a year and let them come back chastened, but better than ever. The way they have chosen will cripple the program for a decade or more and punishes people who had nothing to do with the crimes in question.

    Regards,

    Steve



    Considering the horrific nature of the crimes, and the complete corruption throughout the university system that allowed a guy like JoePa to run around as God, the NCAA had to put the hammer down. To go light on the matter would have only fostered the notion that football is above the well being of our youth, even though often times that may seem to be the case. I don't think from a strictly P.R. standpoint they had any other choice.



  12. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    7/24/2012 8:07 PM
    brutal



  13. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    7/24/2012 9:07 PM
    Steven Kurta said: brutal


    Funny!! I like the shower logo.

    But what's with the Hot Wheels?



  14. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    7/25/2012 4:07 AM
    Steven Kurta said: brutal

    God, there used to be a decent waiting period before such humour became proper...but that is funny! in a tragic sort of way



  15. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/25/2012 7:07 AM
    This article sums up my feelings about the NCAA and its sanctions....Careful, there are some shockingly bad words in this, I wouldn't want anyone to be offended:

    http://deadspin.com/5928204/the-ncaa-is ... te-scandal



  16. Timothy Walker
    Timothy Walker avatar
    0 posts
    7/25/2012 8:07 AM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: I was never a Joe Paterrno fan, but I still don't think the NCAA is the right body to sanction Penn State. The NCAA holds at least some of the responsibility for the culture that they say they want to reform. They get millions from these elite programs and for them to act like its now suddenly not right to hold the programs up as sacrosanct is just a tad hypocritical, don't you think?
    It is just my opinion, but I think that if the NCAA was to do anything, they should have just shut them down for a year and let them come back chastened, but better than ever. The way they have chosen will cripple the program for a decade or more and punishes people who had nothing to do with the crimes in question.

    Regards,

    Steve


    I agree with the NCAA's responsibility for creating this culture. However, their culture is whatever we can do for the most money at all cost. Point in case, the whorring out of the championship game to the highest bidding city.
    The NCAA is very responsible for creating the win at all cost culture because winning = MONEY!

    There was evidence to hold scholarships, financial penalty, and post season revenue fine. The evidence was not all there to vacate wins yet or ban the current team from post season play. There was an obvious need to act as the upcoming season is knocking on the door, but I beleive the NCAA should have left it open for a review after the legal process was played out.

    It is very obvious that Emmert had to do something and it had to be severe at the cost of Penn State because the NCAA has basically become a non-factor...there was a great program on espn last night with Outside the Lines Bo Ley.

    It is what it is, and there is nothing the public can do to change it. I am obviously biased but it is just an opinion. I beleive the sanctions were severe because Graham Spanier sat on NCAA committees blasting other programs and put Penn State on a pedestal all the while he had dark secrets. Graham was president from 1995, so he was in fact a newbie when this surfaced...

    Bobby Bowden said it best, "I know what I had and I know what Joe had". Paterno will always have 409 wins, Adam Talifarro said it best, "They say these games didn't exist, I have the metal plate in my neck that proves they did. I almost died playing for Penn State".



  17. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    7/25/2012 9:07 AM
    Kieth I emailed you the correct lettering for that tshirt.......you're off a bit..........that is the correct speling of ur name rite?



  18. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    7/26/2012 10:07 AM
    To answer the original question, Joe Pa was a coward and an enabler- a far cry from the now hollow reputation that had been created. I'm not a big believer in vacating past wins, that is not a rational concept. There's a lesson here and erasing him from the record books doesn't serve the teaching of the lesson. When he's put in the hall of fame there should be equal space allotted to how the race for wins corrupted his sense of right and wrong and how meaningless the wins seem now in light of the true legacy he left behind.



  19. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    7/26/2012 12:07 PM
    David McCallum said: Kieth I emailed you the correct lettering for that tshirt.......you're off a bit..........that is the correct speling of ur name rite?


    A Crystal burger? Sorry, I don't eat red meat. Oh, and the correct spelling is S-T-U-D, preceded by the word Mister, but my friends call me Ke`ola`aloha`aina`ho`ohanohano.



  20. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    7/26/2012 1:07 PM
    Keith Lamb said:
    David McCallum said: Kieth I emailed you the correct lettering for that tshirt.......you're off a bit..........that is the correct speling of ur name rite?


    A Crystal burger? Sorry, I don't eat red meat. Oh, and the correct spelling is S-T-U-D, preceded by the word Mister, but my friends call me Ke`ola`aloha`aina`ho`ohanohano.


    Could we get Steve O to translate what your friends call you?



  21. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    7/26/2012 1:07 PM
    Larry Allan said:
    Keith Lamb said:
    David McCallum said: Kieth I emailed you the correct lettering for that tshirt.......you're off a bit..........that is the correct speling of ur name rite?


    A Crystal burger? Sorry, I don't eat red meat. Oh, and the correct spelling is S-T-U-D, preceded by the word Mister, but my friends call me Ke`ola`aloha`aina`ho`ohanohano.


    Could we get Steve O to translate what your friends call you?


    Funny, Steve doesn't look Polyneeshian. What is his "Mother" tongue anyways?



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