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Joe Pa... coward, criminal, accomplice???

51 posts
  1. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/16/2012 10:07 AM
    So are the Penn State guys here still supporting the late, and very dead, Joe Pa?

    Do you support having everything Joe Pa expunged from the university or are the folks at Penn State just hoping, that in time, the buzzard will be revered again in the eye of public opinion?

    For such a big and utterly sick story, you'd think there would be some discussion here, especially considering Penn State's perceived standing in our business.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8159195/report-says-penn-state-nittany-lions-senior-officials-disregarded-children-welfare

    In my opinion, Joe Pa always was a whiner, but it appears as his coaching skills were slipping, he did everything he could to cover up the crimes of Sandusky to continue his chase of history. Now that he is dead, did that accomplishment really mean anything, especially since by not reporting and covering up Sandusky's crimes, the lives of future young men were ruined in a brutal way? Wow, all-time win record and continued butt-rape of teenage boys or do the right thing? Joe Pa must have been senile? Or I least I hope that was the cause.

    Penn State needs to at least look like they care by taking down the buzzard's statue ASAP. I imagine the civil suits are going to cripple at least the Athletic Department.



  2. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/16/2012 3:07 PM
    Are you suggesting that Joe didn't ascend to the heavens and is not now sitting on the right hand of Jaweh?



  3. Hardy Andrew
    Hardy Andrew avatar
    7/17/2012 4:07 AM
    Good luck trying to convince a PSU alum of anything. This doesn't diminsh their degree but it is certainly a "black eye" to sport and society. Perhaps sometimes silence is golden.



  4. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/17/2012 1:07 PM
    Andrew Hardy said: Good luck trying to convince a PSU alum of anything. This doesn't diminsh their degree but it is certainly a "black eye" to sport and society. Perhaps sometimes silence is golden.


    I"m not sure what the silence around here means. I hope it's not a "hide your head in the sand" thing, because from the outside PSU looks tainted without any action to remove every last remembrance of Joe Pa from their university. I wouldn't want to portray tacit approval of his selfish, and ultimately harmful, drive for legend status.



  5. David Brandenburg
    David Brandenburg avatar
    3 posts
    7/17/2012 1:07 PM
    I did not attend Penn State but revered Paterno's success as a coach and leader as a fan of college football without any inside knowledge of the operation. What he did over his lifetime was incredible. But it is all gone now.

    Different era or not, he either knew or should have known what was happening under his nose and instead of covering it up or looking the other way should of dealt with it strictly and swiftly.

    His reputation is tarnished by his lack of action and I agree the only way for Penn State to move forward is to rid itself of any relationship to his name. Discipline is not easy for the discipliner but it needs to be done for the greater good.



  6. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/17/2012 3:07 PM
    The thought that this is outside the bounds of the NCAA seems to be debunked here. The "Death Penalty" sounds as if it is still on the table with the NCAA. The President of the NCAA says to the effect that this case is the worst case of "lack of institutional control" in history.

    Stay tuned

    http://video.pbs.org/video/2257100910



  7. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    7/17/2012 3:07 PM
    It could be as obvious as Sandusky had something on Paterno and it was bad enough that he used it to keep Paterno quiet. That makes more sense than a great man with impeccable record had an inexcusable lack of judgement that was completely out of character and that he knowingly hurt kids.

    Sometimes correct answer is the simplest one. We're dealing with humans here, not gods.



  8. Dustin Riley
    Dustin Riley avatar
    8 posts
    7/17/2012 4:07 PM
    Steven Kurta said: It could be as obvious as Sandusky had something on Paterno and it was bad enough that he used it to keep Paterno quiet. That makes more sense than a great man with impeccable record had an inexcusable lack of judgement that was completely out of character and that he knowingly hurt kids.

    Sometimes correct answer is the simplest one. We're dealing with humans here, not gods.


    Black Mail has crossed my mind several times. I am a Penn Stater and never was a Joe Pa or Penn St football fan. Should it get the Death Penalty? Not sure. However, it is my opinion that the schools entire athletic program (not just football) needs to be penalized. The Athletic Director and President were privy to everything.

    Recommend No Tournament Championship, Bowl games for 3-years. Money seems to be have the great impact.
    Probation for ALL other programs for 3 years.

    Just my 2c.



  9. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/17/2012 5:07 PM
    SMU got the death penalty for paying players, should PennState get a lesser penalty for raping children?
    To address the original topic, though, it sure looks like Joe was, at the very least, an acomplice.

    I'm actually not convinced that this is an area that the NCAA should be involved in, they might want to let the justice system work it's magic on these bastards.



  10. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    7/17/2012 5:07 PM
    Sad really, isn't it? I went there, attended games...at least made it to the parking lot, and Joe and Sandusky walked by the barracks every day. It was all new to me. The local lads would almost bow to the Gods. I didn't really get it.
    It's a shame that this went on and was buried to keep the legacy going. I'm not sure of the answer for Joe and the higher ups. Ultimately regardless of penalty and civil suits, a lot of trusting kids were damaged in a way that only they can understand.



  11. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/17/2012 5:07 PM
    Joe Paterno in an alternate universe:


    Ladies and gentlemen of the press, Penn State alumni, students and faculty, and my players:

    I have always tried to live my life according to what I believe to be universal tenets: Honesty. Decency. Empathy. Loyalty. I believe that in my time here on earth it is incumbent on me to honor my God, my family, my friends, and for over three decades, the Penn State community at large and the smaller community that is the football program.

    Being able to mentor the fine young men who have passed through Penn State's football program over the years is an honor and a privilege in addition to being a huge responsibility. To be able to make a difference in the life of a young person is not just a gift we can give the young, but a gift they give us. And when those of us who have been blessed by this privilege abuse it, it is incumbent upon the rest of us to do whatever we have to in order to make things right.

    It was recently brought to my attention by Athletic Director Tim Curley that Jerry Sandusky, a member of my staff and a man I have trusted for years, recently behaved in a sexually inappropriate manner with a young boy who participates in Mr. Sandusky's Second Mile program.

    Jerry has been my friend, my colleague, and my confidant since 1969. That he could be capable of such things is beyond my comprehension. Nevertheless, the complaint against him is so heinous that I have had no choice but to involve law enforcement authorities outside the university and to let them decide what further actions, if any, to take.

    There are those who will question my decision. This university benefits greatly from having one of the finest football programs in the country. When it becomes common knowledge after I leave you today that a member of my staff is suspected to have abused children, I expect to be vilified for damaging "the brand" of Penn State football.

    I see it differently.

    For me to NOT do what is right for the child Jer -- Mr. Sandusky -- is suspected of abusing would truly damage "the brand" -- and taint Penn State football for years to come.

    As I said at the beginning of these words, the ability to help shape the young men of the Nittany Lions for their bright futures is an honor and a privilege. I will not allow anyone -- not even a close friend -- to soil that honor.

    Even if you do not support my decision, if you do not support me, I hope you will continue to support this school's excellent football program. The fine young men who play on this field deserve no less.

    Thank you.


    Of course, this never happened, he made another choice.



  12. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    7/18/2012 11:07 AM
    I'm actually not convinced that this is an area that the NCAA should be involved in, they might want to let the justice system work it's magic on these bastards.

    Like the magic they worked on Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds.

    The NCAA needs to take action, they know this is not the only dysfunctional "Win at All Cost"football program. Notre Dame put a kid in a scissors lift in 30 MPH winds to film practice. We know kids are literally getting their brains beaten with inferior helmets, not to mention the fact that most of the football culture really revolves around illegal gambling.


    Only 45 days until Boise State football!!!!!!!!!!!!



  13. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    7/18/2012 1:07 PM
    May as wade in with my two cents worth. I do not think the death penalty is the correct punishment. I personally would remove his statue yesterday and his name from all buildings as well. He was complicit in what went on without a question. The AD, the chanchellor or VP (whatver his title) along with the university president should be fired as they were so quick to do with Paterno. The death penalty would penalize those with no "dog in the fight" so to speak as well as every other sports program on campus. Perhaps a 10 year bowl ban and non sharing of Big 10 revenues during that time just might make an impression on the next leaders on campus. Nothing says we hate you......... as not sharing the moola.



  14. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/18/2012 1:07 PM
    Sean Hoolehan, CGCS said: I'm actually not convinced that this is an area that the NCAA should be involved in, they might want to let the justice system work it's magic on these bastards.


    Like the magic they worked on Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds.

    The NCAA needs to take action, they know this is not the only dysfunctional "Win at All Cost"football program. Notre Dame put a kid in a scissors lift in 30 MPH winds to film practice. We know kids are literally getting their brains beaten with inferior helmets, not to mention the fact that most of the football culture really revolves around illegal gambling.


    Only 45 days until Boise State football!!!!!!!!!!!!


    You may be right, but I wonder if the NCAA is actually the right body to inflict the kind of punishment that needs to be inflicted. I suspect that if enough money is won through the myriad of lawsuits that I'm sure are coming, they may bankrupt the program anyway.
    Please notice the lack of color in my response.

    Regards,

    Steve



  15. Grote Richard R
    Grote Richard R avatar
    7/18/2012 1:07 PM
    As a Penn Stater..... Just how many of you Penn Staters will continue wearing the logo and colors?



  16. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    7/18/2012 3:07 PM
    Richard Grote, CGCS said: As a Penn Stater..... Just how many of you Penn Staters will continue wearing the logo and colors?


    If I was a Penn Stater I would wear the logo. It wasn't your fault or the fault of many fine people who have made up Penn State.



  17. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    7/19/2012 5:07 AM
    Richard Grote, CGCS said: As a Penn Stater..... Just how many of you Penn Staters will continue wearing the logo and colors?

    Having never been noted for my style sensibility nor my integrity, If it is clean, I will put it on



  18. Timothy Walker
    Timothy Walker avatar
    0 posts
    7/19/2012 9:07 AM
    Richard I have far too much Penn State clothing, to not wear...

    I hold season tickets and have already submitted payment...it is my intent to see the results of the whole process and make a decision at that point. It is very disappointing to believe in something for a lifetime and at the flip of a switch, see that it was all make believe.

    As far as the death penalty goes: the financial strain imposed beyond theose involved is severe. This includes; hotels in a 1 hour circumfrence of state college, restaurants in town, merchants of all sorts, people who are employed either full or part time by the university and community. The entire athletic department will be affected by the financial loss from a death penalty. The revenues from football pay for a lot of programs outside of athletics as well.

    I agree that a penalty should be imposed to the university, what that penalty is I don't know...thankfully I am not in a position to have to make that decision. I beleive the legal process should be complete before the NCAA makes a decision and there is only 6 weeks until the season begins. There are a lot of gaps in information and information that needs to be sought out to complete the puzzle.

    It will be very easy to throw paterno under the bus since he is not here to answer any questions. Obviously he was involved but so were so many other people. It will be very interesting to see what the final report is with all of the facts.

    As a Penn Stater it is hard to watch but I will wait for all of the facts before I make a decision.

    2001 graduate



  19. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    7/19/2012 12:07 PM
    Timothy Walker, CGCS said:

    As far as the death penalty goes: the financial strain imposed beyond theose involved is severe. This includes; hotels in a 1 hour circumfrence of state college, restaurants in town, merchants of all sorts, people who are employed either full or part time by the university and community. The entire athletic department will be affected by the financial loss from a death penalty. The revenues from football pay for a lot of programs outside of athletics as well.



    I guess inasmuch the considerations they pondered when they decided to cover this up, they didn't give consideration to what would happen when the truth came out. It's unfortunate the collateral damage that may occur, but whose fault is that?



  20. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    7/20/2012 9:07 AM
    You may be right, but I wonder if the NCAA is actually the right body to inflict the kind of punishment that needs to be inflicted. I suspect that if enough money is won through the myriad of lawsuits that I'm sure are coming, they may bankrupt the program anyway.
    Please notice the lack of color in my response.

    Regards,

    Steve


    Steve,

    I agree the civil cases are going to eat Penn State alive. I am guessing they already are negotiating with attorneys of the victims. Do you have something against color?



  21. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM
    Not often I agree with much of what Nick Saban says but he had an interesting idea for punishment. A self imposed surcharge on every football ticket with all proceeds going to the victims of this tragedy.



  22. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/22/2012 4:07 PM
    The hammer falls tomorrow. In addition, I think the vacating of wins should be considered. At least enough so JoePa is no longer the all-time leader in coaching wins.

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027



  23. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    7/22/2012 6:07 PM
    Ronald Conard, CGCS said: The hammer falls tomorrow. In addition, I think the vacating of wins should be considered. At least enough so JoePa is no longer the all-time leader in coaching wins.

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027


    Maybe all wins since the time Joe knew about the incident, or all the wins when Sandusky was on staff.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  24. Alan Frantik
    Alan Frantik avatar
    0 posts
    7/22/2012 8:07 PM
    And should the high graduation rates of his players be also questioned? With the power and dominion he had over the administration, don't you think he steamrolled faculty members or graduate assistants to get his players on the field? Will we ever hear about this?



  25. Keith Pegg
    Keith Pegg avatar
    0 posts
    7/22/2012 10:07 PM
    What happened at Penn State can never be taken away, but I hope we all learn from this and it may happen less often in the future. One think I heard was they may suspend the sports programs for a year or more. That is the wrong action, that is punishing the kids. Come on let the program go forward with new people and new rules. As for the statue maybe it is a good idea for the time to white wash the area of all the bad memories and move on. Maybe someday it could be put back in the memory of a good man that maybe turned his head and heart, away from the moral path that I am sure he knew was right. With all that has happened in churches across the world and sports. It is time we start looking at the young and helpless children of the world. The guilty in this need the punishment of the ages; I do not know what that could be. I hope our courts can be fair and do the right thing.

    Keith
    Zama Golf



  26. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    7/23/2012 7:07 AM
    Keith Pegg said: The guilty in this need the punishment of the ages; I do not know what that could be.
    Keith
    Zama Golf


    That's easy, it's called being put into the general population of a federal prison. That would ensure they would be treated the same way they allowed those kids to be treated, for the rest of their lives.



  27. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    7/23/2012 9:07 AM
    Penn State Punishments:

    $60 million fine, representing approximately one year of football revenues. These funds will go to child sex abuse awareness programs.

    4-year bowl game ban.

    Scholarship reduction, cap lasting four years.

    Any entering, returning football student athlete can transfer immediately. Presuming academic requirements are met, these potential transfers can play immediately.

    PSU vacates all wins from 1998-2011. The loss of 111 career wins drops Joe Paterno from atop the all-time wins list to 12th.

    PSU begins a five-year probationary period, with the NCAA reserving the right to implement further punishments.



  28. Alan Frantik
    Alan Frantik avatar
    0 posts
    7/23/2012 9:07 AM
    [quote">PSU vacates all wins from 1998-2011. The loss of 111 career wins drops Joe Paterno from atop the all-time wins list to 12th



    From ESPN.com

    * Joe Paterno record now 298-136-3; fifth on FBS all-time list



  29. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    7/23/2012 10:07 AM
    Apparently Mark Emmert took my bowl ban suggestion to heart plus some..........wow ! That should get someones attention. A mass exodus from the football team I would imagine.......especially if a commitment or a freshman.



  30. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    7/23/2012 11:07 AM
    I feel for the entire Penn State family that had nothing to do with this. If this is anyway helps the healing process continue for the victims, then justice has been served. At least it sends the message that somethings are far more important than football. I am glad the NCAA vacated 111 of JoePa's wins. To allow him to sit on top of the all-time coaching greats, especially considering the time frame of the events, would have been a travesty.



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