Colorado Killer Cancel The title field is required!

1. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   7/20/2012 3:07 PM

   This creep went to a high school about 2 miles from my house and his poor parents still live in Ranch Penasquitos. What goes so very wrong with these people that commit these unthinkable acts? He is a good student but referred to as quiet and shy but ok when you get to know him. He grew up in a solid upper middle class community and it sounds like he had very supportive friends and family. It is just so hard to comprehend. Certainly thoughts and prayers for all those impacted by this crazy act.

   
   
   
   
2. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   7/20/2012 3:07 PM

   [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/Gunmen.jpg[/img">
   
   The top event occurred right in front of our main gate on Friday the 13th. The shooter was one of our residents. I saw the action Saturday morning on the way to work, but didn't know what happened until mid-morning. Two armed gunmen ran in and attempted to rob the place. The old man pulled out a handgun and unloaded on them both. A few times in the store, and as he was chasing them out in the parking lot. They got away with only their lives, and weren't even able to return fire. They were apprehended after 911 was called in reference to two people that had been shot at a house near the internet cafe. The patron with the gun was not charged.
   
   Had there been a concealed weapon in the theater, this tragedy could have been a lot less severe. Makes me want to start carrying everywhere. Proves you aren't safe no matter where you go.
   
   My heart goes out to the victims and families.

   
   
   
   
3. Larry Stowell

   

   0 posts
   
   7/20/2012 10:07 PM

   Don't forget your gas mask. I can imagine the melee with good samaritan #1 pulling his gun and tries to return fire, another good samaritan #2 sees good samaritan #1 through the smoke and thinks he is the shooter so he shoots toward good Samaritan #1 - if only good Samaritan #2 had remembered to bring his gas mask, good samaritan #1 and his date would have survived. But wait, good samaritan #3, also blurry-eyed from the smoke pulls his new PPK out and shoots good samaritan #2 just before emptying his seven-shot magazine (forgot to bring more bullets - and gas mask - note to self, buy 15 shot clip). several nearby moviegoers drop nearby good samaritan #2 - that is the price we pay for personal security.
   
   What a laughable idea for us all to be armed in a theatre filled with several hundred people.

   
   
   
   
4. Niemier Rick A

   
   7/20/2012 11:07 PM

   Larry Stowell said: Don't forget your gas mask. I can imagine the melee with good samaritan #1 pulling his gun and tries to return fire, another good samaritan #2 sees good samaritan #1 through the smoke and thinks he is the shooter so he shoots toward good Samaritan #1 - if only good Samaritan #2 had remembered to bring his gas mask, good samaritan #1 and his date would have survived. But wait, good samaritan #3, also blurry-eyed from the smoke pulls his new PPK out and shoots good samaritan #2 just before emptying his seven-shot magazine (forgot to bring more bullets - and gas mask - note to self, buy 15 shot clip). several nearby moviegoers drop nearby good samaritan #2 - that is the price we pay for personal security.
   
   What a laughable idea for us all to be armed in a theatre filled with several hundred people.

   
   
   
   I have to agree with you Larry. You won't find many on here that will tho. Gun fanatics think they have every right to buy assault-type rifles, 100 round clips, 6,000 rounds of ammunition and much more. I know of no reasonable public use for assault type rifles and 100 round clips. What about my rights to not expect to have to deal with these idiots who want to pull these types of shootings to gain fame? Does anyone really think one or two gun fanatics carrying could have stopped or lessened the killing by this guy who had used gas, had a mask on, and was shooting with the weapons he had on his person? As you said the idea is laughable! Oh, and by the way I do own two guns, a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge, never had them stolen, NEVER take them out unless I am going hunting, have just a few rounds of ammo, and was taught at a young age about gun safety.
   
   I love it when people say guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well, take away the guns from this idiot and it will surely make it a little harder for this idiot to kill 12 people and injure 59 others in a movie theater.

   
   
   
   
5. Trevor Monreal

   

   5 posts
   
   7/21/2012 12:07 AM

   Rick Niemier said: Well, take away the guns from this idiot and it will surely make it a little harder for this idiot to kill 12 people and injure 59 others in a movie theater.

   
   
   That's the problem...you won't take the guns away from the "idiots" and the "crazies".
   
   All I know is (here in AZ) I feel less safe walking into an extablishment that has this sign on the door:
   
   [img">http://azccwpermit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/firearm_sign_en-300x2312.jpg[/img">
   
   That tells me the only individuals armed in this place are the thugs.

   
   
   
   
6. Niemier Rick A

   
   7/21/2012 1:07 AM

   Trevor Monreal said:

   Larry Stowell said: Well, take away the guns from this idiot and it will surely make it a little harder for this idiot to kill 12 people and injure 59 others in a movie theater.

   
   
   That's the problem...you won't take the guns away from the "idiots" and the "crazies".
   
   All I know is (here in AZ) I feel less safe walking into an extablishment that has this sign on the door:
   
   [img">http://azccwpermit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/firearm_sign_en-300x2312.jpg[/img">
   
   That tells me the only individuals armed in this place are the thugs.

   
   
   That was me not Larry that stated that. Your assuming a thug will be inside! And your assuming he will be armed! And since a thug MIGHT be armed your going to arm yourself? What if he has an Uzzi? You better go home and get your Uzzi. What if he has an assault rifle? You better go back home and get your assault rifle. What if he has a machine gun? You better go home and get your machine gun.
   
   And Andy, what about the shooter wearing a helmet, a gas mask, a tactical bulletproof vest, throat and groin protectors and tactical gloves? Still think someone could have taken him out? really? Come on!
   
   Just because someone else MIGHT have a gun is not a valid argument. Does the Colorado shooter really need to be able to buy two pistols, a shotgun, an assault rifle, 6,000 rounds of ammunition? All since May? We shouldn't have to take guns away from crazies, they shouldn't be able to buy them in the first place!

   
   
   
   
7. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   7/21/2012 7:07 AM

   Do you guys really walk out the door packing heat?
   
   Cell phone...check
   
   Wallet....check
   
   Keys....check
   
   Sunglasses...check
   
   40mm glock....check
   
   Are you carrying at work? That's probably where the crazies are the thickest, no?
   
   I've never carried a gun for protection in my life and have been in places where the pucker factor was huge. I figure if it's my time, it's my time considering the one in multiple million chance of being gunned down. Does driving scare you too? The odds of death from driving are far greater.

   
   
   
   
8. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   7/21/2012 7:07 AM

   Rick Niemier said:
   
   And Andy, what about the shooter wearing a helmet, a gas mask, a tactical bulletproof vest, throat and groin protectors and tactical gloves? Still think someone could have taken him out? really? Come on!

   
   
   It would have at least knocked him back for a minute. If I unloaded 8 shots from a .40 into his head and chest, I doubt he would still be standing, even with a vest. Are gas masks bulletproof?
   
   

   Rick Niemier said: Just because someone else MIGHT have a gun is not a valid argument. Does the Colorado shooter really need to be able to buy two pistols, a shotgun, an assault rifle, 6,000 rounds of ammunition? All since May? We shouldn't have to take guns away from crazies, they shouldn't be able to buy them in the first place!

   
   
   Define "crazies". Can you? Would your definition be different from someone else? Is a medical student a "crazy"? How would the gun store owner know this? A background check was done and no previous incidents with the law or anybody was found. The guns were sold according to the 2nd Amendment and within reason of the law. Who's to say you don't snap one day and shoot up a place?

   
   
   
   
9. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   7/21/2012 7:07 AM

   Two things
   1/The vast majority of theatre goers were likely in their teens and unlikely to have conceal and carry licenses. Most initially thought it was a publicity stunt and would have been unlikely to have their wits about them to fire back regardless, in a smoke filled room.
   2/ one of the people killed was an aspiring sports writer. She was in Toronto at the Eaton Centre food court when gun fire erupted killing two people. A month later, she became one of the stats in the theatre shooting. It just goes to show that when your time is up, your time is up

   
   
   
   
10. Jason Baker

    

    12 posts
    
    7/21/2012 7:07 AM

    Yes I carry a gun. I have in on my person approximately 50% of the time out of my house and away from work. I do carry it at work for my first round around the back, poachers and trespassers frequent the back property. And I know the hunters are armed.
    
    I do not carry it when I am going to have more than a drink or two, guns and beer do not mix.
    
    Question: we had a WAR on Drugs, trying to prevent or at least slow down the drug traffic. How did that work out? Point is how would you prevent the criminals from getting their hands on guns.
    AND if you did prevent the manufacturing and total distribution of "assault weapons" then what would stop the criminal from buying a legal hunting rifle or a legal pistol with ten round magazines and simply loading more magazines? it only takes about 2 seconds for a someone with a little experience to change a mag.
    At least when people, good guys or bad, buy a gun the legal easy way the government has a record of where that gun went, at least the original buyer.

    
    
    
    
11. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM

    I've got lots of guns and I believe in the rights of law abiding gun owners. What I fail to understand is why anybody needs a 30 round magazine.
    I don't know the whole story but I wonder how this guy managed to get in the door carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a pistol a helmet and a gas mask without anybody saying anything.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
12. Steven Kurta

    

    2 posts
    
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM

    I heard The Dark Knight Rises is to die for..
    
    too soon?
    
    
    Why would you want to ban 100 round drum magazines?
    Next thing Obama will be trying to ban bath salts.
    
    There is no argument here.
    - Guns are legal
    - Any idiot can own carry and use one on whoever they want
    - You live in a country that is okay with this risk
    - You're either the type of person that wakes up and thinks about this everyday, or you're not
    
    If a lunatic really wanted to just kill people, a lot of people, they'd take a car down the middle of a street fair or block party, or the sidewalk of a parade...so it's not about efficiency. It's about using that form of lethal device. They choose guns because they're easy to get the nerve up to use and because they can be then turned on themselves to not face the consequences. They're cowards afterall who can't cope with living in the big bad world with the rest of us. A gun is an easy way out.
    
    I personally love to shoot guns or anything that makes noise, but I thankfully haven't reached the point in my life that I'm willing to live like some scared animal fearing for my existence from some unknown suspect that may or may not be lurking waiting to kill me. Having guns for hunting and sport shooting is one thing. Personal protection or carrying, that's not living for me. That's preparing for conflict that you think is possible. If being in that mindset floats your boat and makes you feel safer and smarter. Go for it. Free country.
    
    But we're also the type of people who never lock our house and haven't in the last 20 years living in three different states. So, yeah owning a gun, while being awesome fun to make bang bangs -- ultimately not worth the possibility of being faced with having to draw on someone who was stealing my flatscreen in the middle of the night -- take it dude, god bless.

    
    
    
    
13. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM

    First thing I heard yesterday morning was the guy was a member of the Colorado Tea Party.

    
    
    
    
14. McCallum David K

    
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM

    I think his criminal background check showed one speeding ticket and I also heard (cannot verify how accurate) that he had almost NO digital history. Like he did not exist on the internet. Unusual for one his age.

    
    
    
    
15. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:
    I don't know the whole story but I wonder how this guy managed to get in the door carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a pistol a helmet and a gas mask without anybody saying anything.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    He bought a ticket, walked in. Then, exited through the emergency door and left it propped open. Then returned through the door guns ablazing. The rest is history.

    
    
    
    
16. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    7/21/2012 8:07 AM

    Prediction: movie theaters will install "Gun Free Zone" signs at entrances to make customers feel better, kind of like the way they did at Va Tech before the massacre there a few years back.

    
    
    
    
17. Trevor Monreal

    

    5 posts
    
    7/21/2012 11:07 AM

    Sorry Larry. I Edited my first post...I just was using the "quote" feature on this forum. I should know better.
    
    [quote">Rick Niemier wrote:
    Your assuming a thug will be inside! And your assuming he will be armed! And since a thug MIGHT be armed your going to arm yourself? What if he has an Uzzi? You better go home and get your Uzzi. What if he has an assault rifle? You better go back home and get your assault rifle. What if he has a machine gun? You better go home and get your machine gun.
    
    All I was stating was I feel "less safe" walking into an establishment where law abiding citizens are unarmed. I wasn't ASSUMING I was walking into a war zone.
    
    I don't carry a gun (maybe I should put a big sticker on my back that tells everybody that??). But I do have a slight sense of security knowing some individuals do.
    I think this works as a non-deterrent...how many establishments would put signs up saying "In order to protect your Civil Liberties, we DO NOT have any functioning surveillance cameras at this facility."

    
    
    
    
18. Brian Nettz

    

    0 posts
    
    7/21/2012 11:07 AM

    The cops should have plugged him. Now he is a media poster boy for the one-upper at home watching on tv.

    
    
    
    
19. Wahlin Scott B

    
    7/21/2012 11:07 AM

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: First thing I heard yesterday morning was the guy was a member of the Colorado Tea Party.

    
    
    ABC Reporting:
    
    Stephanopoulos: I'm going to go to Brian Ross. You've been investigating the background of Jim Holmes here. You found something that might be significant.
    
    Ross: There's a Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colo., page on the Colorado Tea party site as well, talking about him joining the Tea Party last year. Now, we don't know if this is the same Jim Holmes. But it's Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colo.
    
    Stephanopoulos: OK, we'll keep looking at that. Brian Ross, thanks very much.
    
    It wasn't the same guy.

    
    
    
    
20. Niemier Rick A

    
    7/21/2012 11:07 AM

    Andy Jorgensen said:

    Rick Niemier said:
    
    And Andy, what about the shooter wearing a helmet, a gas mask, a tactical bulletproof vest, throat and groin protectors and tactical gloves? Still think someone could have taken him out? really? Come on!

    
    
    It would have at least knocked him back for a minute. If I unloaded 8 shots from a .40 into his head and chest, I doubt he would still be standing, even with a vest. Are gas masks bulletproof?
    
    

    Rick Niemier said: Just because someone else MIGHT have a gun is not a valid argument. Does the Colorado shooter really need to be able to buy two pistols, a shotgun, an assault rifle, 6,000 rounds of ammunition? All since May? We shouldn't have to take guns away from crazies, they shouldn't be able to buy them in the first place!

    
    
    Define "crazies". Can you? Would your definition be different from someone else? Is a medical student a "crazy"? How would the gun store owner know this? A background check was done and no previous incidents with the law or anybody was found. The guns were sold according to the 2nd Amendment and within reason of the law. Who's to say you don't snap one day and shoot up a place?

    
    
    Andy, so you are saying in the dark, with 2 gas cannisters set off, people running everywhere, the shooter wearing a tactical helmet, vest, leggings, and shooting that you could hit him and stop him? Wow! I know there is swamp land in Florida, but I ain't buying it. Come on!

    
    
    
    
21. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    7/21/2012 2:07 PM

    Crazy sh&t has been happening for a long time, and will continue to happen with or without guns. How many victims are killed a year in these sensational mass murders in this country? less than 100? How many are killed by dogs? falling rocks? lightning? being kicked in the head by mules?
    
    My point is that the instances of occurrance of this type of stuff is not really that pervasive, just that everytime it occurrs it is sensationalized and scrutinized.
    
    Why did he do it? Simple - He is Crazy. It has nothing to do with watching movies, playing video games, being a tea party member or anything else. Why should we even be looking at those things? So we can start another rediculous witchhunt or use it for political divisiveness or something else completely unrelated?
    
    The personal tragedy involved is obviously unimanigable for those directly affected. As far of the rest of us? We should not even bring this up in relation to gun control. Whether we need gun control or not, this isn't the reason. The odds of this being a factor in any of our lives are pretty slim.

    
    
    
    
22. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    7/21/2012 2:07 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: First thing I heard yesterday morning was the guy was a member of the Colorado Tea Party.

    
    
    ABC Reporting:
    
    Stephanopoulos: I'm going to go to Brian Ross. You've been investigating the background of Jim Holmes here. You found something that might be significant.
    
    Ross: There's a Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colo., page on the Colorado Tea party site as well, talking about him joining the Tea Party last year. Now, we don't know if this is the same Jim Holmes. But it's Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colo.
    
    Stephanopoulos: OK, we'll keep looking at that. Brian Ross, thanks very much.
    
    It wasn't the same guy.

    
    
    Are Brian Ross and George Stephanopoulos still employed after that?

    
    
    
    
23. Wahlin Scott B

    
    7/21/2012 2:07 PM

    I am not sure how I feel about people carrying guns. I can definitely follow the rationale that if everyone in the theater had opened fire someone would have gotten lucky. I don't carry one, but I do own guns. I would own an FN FAL assault rifle if my son had told me he was going to sell it. I was in Miami for the 1980 riot, 1992 Hurricane Andrew and was out the night that Janet Reno snatched Elian Gonzalez. If you find yourself in a situation where you are surrounded by angry uninhibited people and law enforcement cannot get to you right away an assault rifle would be nice to have.

    
    
    
    
24. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    7/21/2012 3:07 PM

    [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/Gunlaws.jpg[/img">

    
    
    
    
25. Niemier Rick A

    
    7/21/2012 4:07 PM

    James Schmid said:
    
    The personal tragedy involved is obviously unimanigable for those directly affected. As far of the rest of us? We should not even bring this up in relation to gun control. Whether we need gun control or not, this isn't the reason. The odds of this being a factor in any of our lives are pretty slim.

    
    
    
    If something like this is NOT a reason to bring up gun control and whether or not laws need to be changed when would e a good time? Oh yea, lets wait until another shooting happens. It won't happen to me. Stick your head in the sand and hold on to your gun while your at it.

    
    
    
    
26. Niemier Rick A

    
    7/21/2012 4:07 PM

    Andy Jorgensen said: [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/Gunlaws.jpg[/img">

    
    
    
    Gee let's see....He bought four guns in 2 months, a 100 round ammo clip, 6,000 rounds of ammo, all kinds of tactical body wear...all legal. Nope, the laws don't need to be looked at. Not now. Families are in mourning. Let's wait.......wait until the next idiot has done the same thing and killed even more people.

    
    
    
    
27. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    7/21/2012 4:07 PM

    Rick Niemier said:

    James Schmid said:
    
    The personal tragedy involved is obviously unimanigable for those directly affected. As far of the rest of us? We should not even bring this up in relation to gun control. Whether we need gun control or not, this isn't the reason. The odds of this being a factor in any of our lives are pretty slim.

    
    
    
    If something like this is NOT a reason to bring up gun control and whether or not laws need to be changed when would e a good time? Oh yea, lets wait until another shooting happens. It won't happen to me. Stick your head in the sand and hold on to your gun while your at it.

    
    
    Whether or not gun control could prevent these types of events is debatable, but let's just say it could. How many deaths by gun wielding mass murderer would be prevented annually? less than 50? What would the cost of changing all of the laws and going out and rounding up all of the guns be? 100 billion dollars? we could save far more lives by spending that money on other things.
    
    What I am saying is it is foolish to try to make policy decisions based on low probability, sensational events. We should look at the facts, not the media circus. This event is not a reason to try to control guns, nor is it an argument, as some have suggested, for people to carry guns. It's like saying that no one should use tylenol because back in the 80s a few people in chicago were killed by poisoned tylenol.

    
    
    
    
28. Niemier Rick A

    
    7/21/2012 6:07 PM

    James Schmid said:

    Rick Niemier said:

    James Schmid said:
    
    The personal tragedy involved is obviously unimanigable for those directly affected. As far of the rest of us? We should not even bring this up in relation to gun control. Whether we need gun control or not, this isn't the reason. The odds of this being a factor in any of our lives are pretty slim.

    
    
    
    If something like this is NOT a reason to bring up gun control and whether or not laws need to be changed when would e a good time? Oh yea, lets wait until another shooting happens. It won't happen to me. Stick your head in the sand and hold on to your gun while your at it.

    
    
    Whether or not gun control could prevent these types of events is debatable, but let's just say it could. How many deaths by gun wielding mass murderer would be prevented annually? less than 50? What would the cost of changing all of the laws and going out and rounding up all of the guns be? 100 billion dollars? we could save far more lives by spending that money on other things.
    
    What I am saying is it is foolish to try to make policy decisions based on low probability, sensational events. We should look at the facts, not the media circus. This event is not a reason to try to control guns, nor is it an argument, as some have suggested, for people to carry guns. It's like saying that no one should use tylenol because back in the 80s a few people in chicago were killed by poisoned tylenol.

    
    
    
    So if we followed your argument then why are we spending all this money fighting terrorism? All I am saying is that somewhere there should have been a red flag when this kid went out and bought four guns, ammo, tactical gear, chemicals for bombs, etc.. I hope that someday someone you know is not one of "only" 50 murdered each year by a gun wielding murderer. Maybe the "price" would be worth it to you then.

    
    
    
    
29. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    7/21/2012 10:07 PM

    Rick Niemier said:

    James Schmid said:

    Rick Niemier said:

    James Schmid said:
    
    The personal tragedy involved is obviously unimanigable for those directly affected. As far of the rest of us? We should not even bring this up in relation to gun control. Whether we need gun control or not, this isn't the reason. The odds of this being a factor in any of our lives are pretty slim.

    
    
    
    If something like this is NOT a reason to bring up gun control and whether or not laws need to be changed when would e a good time? Oh yea, lets wait until another shooting happens. It won't happen to me. Stick your head in the sand and hold on to your gun while your at it.

    
    
    Whether or not gun control could prevent these types of events is debatable, but let's just say it could. How many deaths by gun wielding mass murderer would be prevented annually? less than 50? What would the cost of changing all of the laws and going out and rounding up all of the guns be? 100 billion dollars? we could save far more lives by spending that money on other things.
    
    What I am saying is it is foolish to try to make policy decisions based on low probability, sensational events. We should look at the facts, not the media circus. This event is not a reason to try to control guns, nor is it an argument, as some have suggested, for people to carry guns. It's like saying that no one should use tylenol because back in the 80s a few people in chicago were killed by poisoned tylenol.

    
    
    
    So if we followed your argument then why are we spending all this money fighting terrorism? All I am saying is that somewhere there should have been a red flag when this kid went out and bought four guns, ammo, tactical gear, chemicals for bombs, etc.. I hope that someday someone you know is not one of "only" 50 murdered each year by a gun wielding murderer. Maybe the "price" would be worth it to you then.

    
    
    I'm not trying to trivialize the personal tragedy for those involved. I mentioned that in my original post. What I am saying is that these are freak occurances and you can't base policy decisions on freak occurances

    
    
    
    
30. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    7/22/2012 7:07 AM

    Norway has tough gun laws and it's exactly a year since 77 people were gunned down. We have tough gun laws and still have a few massacres. We seem to prefer the old fashioned methods of dismembering, eating and mailing body parts.
    That being said, gun control would not have prevented the movie theatre massacre, no more than Norway. Unstable people will continue to find ways to kill. Need we be reminded of box cutters?
    What I will argue, gun control does, is to lessen the potential of accidental fire arm deaths or theft of fire arms such as what happened to DMC. His gun is now out there and the guy who took it has already proven he isn't a model citizen in every way
    
    Finding a way to prevent mental illness is likely the only solution
    
    "They put a hot wire to my head
    'Cos of the things I did and said
    And made these feelings go away
    Model citizen in every way"
    
    [youtube">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejRal5xFWA4[/youtube">