The Sad Part of Our Job Cancel The title field is required!

1. Ben Ellis

   

   0 posts
   
   11/23/2012 6:11 PM

   Although this post should be in the "Being a Superintendent" Section I wanted to bring this up to more golf superintendents.
   
   I was talking to a friend of mine and we were discussing the downside of our individual jobs, his as a firefighter and mine as a golf superintendent. I wanted to bring this up to others since I hope I am not alone with my assumption.
   
   When I began in the green industry I was a laborer. I cut tee's, cups, collars, and fairways. Today it seems like I spend over half my day driving around in my Gator and the other half doing paperwork. Why on Earth is it that when we do less labor we are paid more? Absolutley the mental part of our job weighs over the physical, But honestly I miss the labor.
   
   I would like to hear from others who may feel this way. Have we lost our roots? Do you remember the day when your superintendent asked you to work extra when the course was aerifying? I hope to hear from you. Have a good holiday season.
   
   Ben Ellis
   (301)440-9882
   The Courses at Andrews
   Andrews AFB, Md 20764

   
   
   
   
2. Spotts David A

   
   11/23/2012 7:11 PM

   one of the many reasons I went back to a public, 1 owner course from the country club I was at for 13 years.

   
   
   
   
3. Virgil Range

   

   0 posts
   
   11/24/2012 6:11 AM

   Hummm. After reading this is, is this what I look forward to in my career. I don't think so and I disagree with this being a sad part of our job. I am a 2 yr supt. Before this I was an assistant for 2 years at a public 18 hole and 6 years at a private 18 hole. My bosses were 2 different people. At the public course the supt didn't do much. He drove around and looked like he was doing things and always made a big list for me to do. After going to the private club(where my true mentor is) I saw things in a different perspective. Yes he did do a lot of paper work but we also worked his ass off when time is needed. Him and I dug many holes together, he mowed all the time and then did a lot of the small things around the course. Pulling weeds in flower beds, Trimming suckers off trees, hand spraying weeds, just to name a few. He still did all his paper work and at times did just drive around.
   As I am a super now i ask myself do i want to me like my first boss or like my 2nd boss. That's a no brainer. I thank him all the time for mentoring me and teaching me how to become a good supt.
   At my 9 holes I mow, roll, rake bunkers, weed eat, do paper work, I am the mechanic, the spray tech, fix all irrigation issues, I do it all. I do have a small crew and at times I would like to have more.
   If you feel like you want to do more of what I mentioned above, why not just do it. Instead of driving around, hop on a mower and cut. Give the guy that normally does it that day off or just have him do something else.You are the person that makes the decisions and planning of maintenance, so plan a day for you to get on a mower.
   I feel that some supts get into a comfortable position and feel like they dont have to work or just became lazy. They get the boss finger out and keep pointing all the time.
   
   I fell that my job is what I make of it. If i feel like driving around and doing nothing then thats what I do. If I feel like mowing I mow. We make the decisions, why not do a few things a week that wont make your job sad.
   
   What I feel that is the sad part of our jobs. The expectations of golfers, the weather, water management with no rain. Those are the sad things about our jobs. Does anyone agree??
   
   Virgil

   
   
   
   
4. James Smith

   

   112 posts
   
   11/24/2012 8:11 AM

   Virgil Range said: Hummm. After reading this is, is this what I look forward to in my career. I don't think so and I disagree with this being a sad part of our job. I am a 2 yr supt. Before this I was an assistant for 2 years at a public 18 hole and 6 years at a private 18 hole. My bosses were 2 different people. At the public course the supt didn't do much. He drove around and looked like he was doing things and always made a big list for me to do. After going to the private club(where my true mentor is) I saw things in a different perspective. Yes he did do a lot of paper work but we also worked his !%@*x& off when time is needed. Him and I dug many holes together, he mowed all the time and then did a lot of the small things around the course. Pulling weeds in flower beds, Trimming suckers off trees, hand spraying weeds, just to name a few. He still did all his paper work and at times did just drive around.
   As I am a super now i ask myself do i want to me like my first boss or like my 2nd boss. That's a no brainer. I thank him all the time for mentoring me and teaching me how to become a good supt.
   At my 9 holes I mow, roll, rake bunkers, weed eat, do paper work, I am the mechanic, the spray tech, fix all irrigation issues, I do it all. I do have a small crew and at times I would like to have more.
   If you feel like you want to do more of what I mentioned above, why not just do it. Instead of driving around, hop on a mower and cut. Give the guy that normally does it that day off or just have him do something else.You are the person that makes the decisions and planning of maintenance, so plan a day for you to get on a mower.
   I feel that some supts get into a comfortable position and feel like they dont have to work or just became lazy. They get the boss finger out and keep pointing all the time.
   
   I fell that my job is what I make of it. If i feel like driving around and doing nothing then thats what I do. If I feel like mowing I mow. We make the decisions, why not do a few things a week that wont make your job sad.
   
   What I feel that is the sad part of our jobs. The expectations of golfers, the weather, water management with no rain. Those are the sad things about our jobs. Does anyone agree??
   
   Virgil

   
   Two complete opposite sides of the fence here!
   
   I also find myself not doing as much as I once did. But it is more because I have become too important of a figure head of my course to be on a fairway mower all day. I love to do that as well as building new tees and bunkers or digging ponds my problem is that it allways seems like once I get started I am called off of it to deal with something else. I now plan my days around what might happen. I may start cutting fairways and be called off but I generally leave a guy free that can replace me if needed. He may be watering hotspots or whipping greens at the time but a simple shift and I can get to my clubs more important task, like unstopping a toilet!
   
   I feel that only being a two year Superintendent may not qualifye you to answer this question on this thread, wait 10-18 years and then get back to it. It seems the older we are the less manual labor we are expected to do by our clubs and their members. I am always being told to get the younger guys to shovel or rake, but to me it is exercise to the younger guys it is work.

   
   
   
   
5. David Brandenburg

   

   3 posts
   
   11/24/2012 8:11 AM

   Ben,
   
   I too miss the days in 1984-86 when I was a laborer and could mow rough all afternoon listening to my walkman with no shirt or shoes on but those days are gone for me and that is not my job. (the no shoes and shirt are gone for everyone)
   
   Find some jobs you enjoy and can do. I have paperwork, equipment issues and employee problems like everyone else but I still do specific jobs. Looking back I don't think I ever really just drive a cart to drive a cart and supervise employees. I am usually going somewhere to do something and check in on employees along the way.
   
   I change cups half the time as it allows me to see every hole often before the mowers knock the dew off and it allows me to see most of the employees.
   
   I spray over half the time as it is done during the early morning hours when everyone is busy with routine jobs.
   
   I also help with drainage or construction projects as they usually take our entire staff or at least those under 60.
   
   I also do most of the irrigation testing and head repairs as it is something I can do and not worry about being interrupted by a mower stuck in a bunker, a bunker rake stuck in a bunker or a cushman stuck in a bunker or one of the many other little problems that pop up with a staff of mainly students and retirees.
   
   Find some jobs that work for you to get you off your cart and away from the desk.

   
   
   
   
6. Virgil Range

   

   0 posts
   
   11/24/2012 8:11 AM

   Dave,
   
   That was my point.
   
   Find some jobs that work for you to get you off your cart and away from the desk.
   
   Its just some guys choose to do less and less as they get older. But then some guys get old and choose to keep going. Sure there are some things your not going to do as you get old, but it comes down to motivation, determination and self discipline to keep working and always finding ways to keep busy no matter what time of year it is instead of driving around all the time.
   
   Yes i'm not a vet supt but doesn't mean i cant share a rookies comment with everyone. What your talking about in my opinion has nothing to do with the sad part of the job. There is a lot to be sad about besides not being able to mow grass.

   
   
   
   
7. James Gubricky

   

   0 posts
   
   11/24/2012 8:11 AM

   A few observations:
   Superintendents are paid more for their knowledge and managerial skills, not necessarily for their manual labor efforts. Don't get me wrong, I hop on a machine now and then although it seems to be less and less often nowadays. I think it comes down to where is your time better spent?
   
   I spend a lot of time riding around in my golf cart. But I would argue the point about 'riding around and doing nothing'. My dog rides around and does nothing. Myself, I am always looking, observing, checking greens, tees bunkers etc, supervising staff et al.
   
   Personally, I don't feel there is a 'sad' part to this job. I've always enjoyed getting up every am and heading off to the golf course. Cheers.

   
   
   
   
8. Hardy Andrew

   
   11/24/2012 10:11 AM

   The times they are a changing. Would I love to sit on a fairway mower once a week? Sure but its really not in the cards. I will steal a mower from the crew when they are on lunch and get my fix and view of fairways, rough, raking traps and other tasks. Our property is 300 acres and my owner now relies on me for more than ever as his right hand man. I have all the paperwork and other duties as well as managing 20 other people. I still love the job and try and jump on a mower when time permits. This is still the best job in the world!!

   
   
   
   
9. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   11/24/2012 1:11 PM

   Back when I was in sales and really missing the day to day golf course stuff, I was talking to a super and asking him about this same question. He said " It's the greatest job in the world! Sure there is more responsibility and paper work but the beauty is that when you do go out to work you get to pick the job you always loved the most as a labourer"
   I have lived that life for the past 21 years and don't regret a minute of it, other than the politics. I do all my own spraying and that DS300 is like my best friend on the planet. Sadly that says more about my social skill than anything else.
   When I get too old, and sadly that time is coming quickly, my retirement will be a spray tech or rough cutter until I fall off dead and the Lastec mulches me back into the earth. As of late, that option seems more and more appealing

   
   
   
   
10. Wallace Jeffrey V

    
    11/24/2012 3:11 PM

    Larry Allan said: Back when I was in sales and really missing the day to day golf course stuff, I was talking to a super and asking him about this same question. He said " It's the greatest job in the world! Sure there is more responsibility and paper work but the beauty is that when you do go out to work you get to pick the job you always loved the most as a labourer"
    I have lived that life for the past 21 years and don't regret a minute of it, other than the politics. I do all my own spraying and that DS300 is like my best friend on the planet. Sadly that says more about my social skill than anything else.
    When I get too old, and sadly that time is coming quickly, my retirement will be a spray tech or rough cutter until I fall off dead and the Lastec mulches me back into the earth. As of late, that option seems more and more appealing

    
    
    Other than the part about you mulching yourself into oblivion, I like your attitude!

    
    
    
    
11. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    11/24/2012 4:11 PM

    I became a Superintendent so that I wouldn't have to dig holes or cut cups every day and I like it that way, thank you very much. Riding a fairway mower is the most mind numbing experience in the world, second only to mowing rough. I don't mind mowing greens, but honestly, I have staff for that.
    I used to do all of my own fertilizing until the club president wanted to see me one day and I was out on a tractor. His remark included a line about being the most over payed tractor operator in town and I understood what he was driving at. I don't do that any more.
    I get paid to think ahead, deal with staff, deal with fellow employees, deal with members and make sure that all of the little details are looked at .........every.friking.day. I need to know my shit, other people can dig holes for me.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
12. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    11/24/2012 5:11 PM

    Leaning hard to the side of Huff. There are always those teachable moments you need to take advantage of, other times taking a few minutes to help your guys rake some bunkers, etc... I'll do whatever it takes to get the job done, but I have had to learn to pull myself back at times so I can do my job better. I'm paid to be one step ahead of things, to have a plan and implement it in the most efficient way possible. The brains of the operation, so to speak. Work smarter not harder. Not an easy lesson to learn for some when most of us started out busting our backs early in our careers.
    
    One thing though, I'm not to the suit and tie wearing level like those guys in Southwest Florida.

    
    
    
    
13. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    11/24/2012 5:11 PM

    Keith Lamb said: Leaning hard to the side of Huff. There are always those teachable moments you need to take advantage of, other times taking a few minutes to help your guys rake some bunkers, etc... I'll do whatever it takes to get the job done, but I have had to learn to pull myself back at times so I can do my job better. I'm paid to be one step ahead of things, to have a plan and implement it in the most efficient way possible. The brains of the operation, so to speak. Work smarter not harder. Not an easy lesson to learn for some when most of us started out busting our backs early in our careers.
    
    One thing though, I'm not to the suit and tie wearing level like those guys in Southwest Florida.

    
    
    Funny. My suit this morning was made of denim with a coat by Carhaart.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
14. Rosenthal Gregg

    
    11/25/2012 6:11 AM

    My observation of return to normality after doing battle with epilepsy being a superintendent for over 25 years, building 5 new golf courses, hosting the Senior PGA Tour, USGA Women's Mid Amateur and many Local high end events, now being an Assistant Superintendent makes me laugh! I love to Change cups daily, Apply turf products in the proper manner, assist the crew speaking Spanish to them as I do well! Repairing irrigation when necessary. We do in house construction projects as my Current Superintendent is a excellent shaper and in house construction expert! We have built new, larger tees, re-edged bunkers, relocated irrigation heads, and other subtle cool projects, I enjoy to assist and be part of! So to each his own and Enjoy what you do, Live life to its fullest!
    
    Gregg Rosenthal

    
    
    
    
15. Robert Crockett

    

    4 posts
    
    11/25/2012 8:11 AM

    Gregg Rosenthal said: My observation of return to normality after doing battle with epilepsy being a superintendent for over 25 years, building 5 new golf courses, hosting the Senior PGA Tour, USGA Women's Mid Amateur and many Local high end events, now being an Assistant Superintendent makes me laugh! I love to Change cups daily, Apply turf products in the proper manner, assist the crew speaking Spanish to them as I do well! Repairing irrigation when necessary. We do in house construction projects as my Current Superintendent is a excellent shaper and in house construction expert! We have built new, larger tees, re-edged bunkers, relocated irrigation heads, and other subtle cool projects, I enjoy to assist and be part of! So to each his own and Enjoy what you do, Live life to its fullest!
    
    Gregg Rosenthal

    
    Good for you Greg!!!! It's nice to hear a happy story

    
    
    
    
16. Hardy Andrew

    
    11/25/2012 9:11 AM

    Pretty easy to see that the one thing that bonds us all is our love for our job's. There appears to be a million ways to skin the cat, but the fact is that working where we do is the greatest job in the world. I don't see anything sad about that and I'm sure its something we can ALL agree on.
    
    PS- That would be a first

    
    
    
    
17. Wahlin Scott B

    
    11/25/2012 12:11 PM

    I graduated from Lake City in '83. One of the things that Jerry Cheesman said was great about our job is that you could choose to do manual labor if the belt gets too tight!

    
    
    
    
18. Justin VanLanduit

    

    0 posts
    
    11/25/2012 8:11 PM

    I have my routine just as the rest of the staff. I get to work in the morning a half hour prior to start, have a meeting with my assistants and then the crew, once that is finished I go directly to the Golf Shop to discuss daily and weekly events with them so that we are all on the same page and able to work together on making our membership happy. Once that meeting is finished I take my drive out through the course double checking the quality of cuts on the mowers, double checking how the set up guys, bunker crew and everyone else is doing. At that time I'll usually get in touch with my assistants again to see if they are seeing anything I am not that needs to be addressed. That's what I'm paid for, as others have said, I'd love to sit on a mower and listen to music and let the time pass by but how is that giving me the ability to be responsible for the daily duties on the golf course as well as being available to my membership? At times I'll come in after the morning ride to put second jobs on the board and grab a piece of equipment to start one of those jobs but my time doesn't last long there as I always get pulled in another direction. As I tell my second assistant who has been with me for two seasons now, it may seem that I just drive around but I'm keeping my head on a swivel as well as using my internal clock on jobs being performed and checking to see how progress is going, if not where I feel we should be I'll check and make necessary adjustments if needed. Planning and directing for efficiency and quality can't be done spending my time on a machine, I miss the days of operating equipment but now if I wanna do that it's usually when the crew is gone or when I have a spare minute or 15.
    
    Justin

    
    
    
    
19. Sam Reznicek

    

    0 posts
    
    11/25/2012 8:11 PM

    This has been a fun post to catch up on. Lots of different realities out there for a wide range of people. As a few folks already mentioned, that is part of what makes the majority of us enjoy our jobs so much. As a superintendent, we are free work when we need to, and manage when we need, as long as at the end of the day the golf course is as good as it can be. I know I feel very fortunate to be in a position where there are days when my job involves nothing more than driving around, taking notes, delegating tasks, and planning ahead, and then there are also days when I mud it up in an irrigation hole, cut cups, or sit in a skiddy building tee boxes. As they say, "variety is the spice of life".

    
    
    
    
20. Keith Pegg

    

    0 posts
    
    11/25/2012 9:11 PM

    Ben Ellis said: Although this post should be in the "Being a Superintendent" Section I wanted to bring this up to more golf superintendents.
    
    I was talking to a friend of mine and we were discussing the downside of our individual jobs, his as a firefighter and mine as a golf superintendent. I wanted to bring this up to others since I hope I am not alone with my assumption.
    
    When I began in the green industry I was a laborer. I cut tee's, cups, collars, and fairways. Today it seems like I spend over half my day driving around in my Gator and the other half doing paperwork. Why on Earth is it that when we do less labor we are paid more? Absolutley the mental part of our job weighs over the physical, But honestly I miss the labor.
    
    I would like to hear from others who may feel this way. Have we lost our roots? Do you remember the day when your superintendent asked you to work extra when the course was aerifying? I hope to hear from you. Have a good holiday season.
    
    Ben Ellis
    (301)440-9882
    The Courses at Andrews
    Andrews AFB, Md 20764

    
    
    Ben,
    Sad part of my work, will be the day I stop. I get angered at the day and even the week but never for long. I still have a mix of work and paper work. A lot more records to keep than we did 40 years ago. Seems that you have to back up everything with paper or in the cloud (do not trust the cloud). The internet and computers were going to save us time well they didn't we just seem to find new ways of doing old things. All in all I guess I do not see any downside. My roots are deep and life is good.
    
    Keith Pegg
    US Army Japan
    Zama Golf

    
    
    
    
21. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    11/26/2012 6:11 AM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I graduated from Lake City in '83. One of the things that Jerry Cheesman said was great about our job is that you could choose to do manual labor if the belt gets too tight!

    
    
    Scotty, I have the feeling you have ignored the advice and just bought a bigger belt.

    
    
    
    
22. Corey Eastwood

    

    80 posts
    
    11/26/2012 11:11 AM

    "...double checking how the set up guys..." This is so important but not done much. Most of the courses I visit the "set up" is pitiful at best.

    
    Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired
    
    
23. Wahlin Scott B

    
    11/26/2012 1:11 PM

    Larry Allan said: Scotty, I have the feeling you have ignored the advice and just bought a bigger belt.

    
    
    I look forward to meeting you someday. You are obviously a very wise man.

    
    
    
    
24. Wahlin Scott B

    
    11/26/2012 1:11 PM

    Corey Eastwood, CGCS said: "...double checking how the set up guys..." This is so important but not done much. Most of the courses I visit the "set up" is pitiful at best.

    
    
    I think the guys do their best, but I think your comment is right on. It has obviously got to be harder than many of us think. That is okay. We just need to stay on top of it. I know my team needs to do a better job.

    
    
    
    
25. Justin VanLanduit

    

    0 posts
    
    11/26/2012 2:11 PM

    Corey Eastwood, CGCS said: "...double checking how the set up guys..." This is so important but not done much. Most of the courses I visit the "set up" is pitiful at best.

    
    
    I'm anal about set up! Leaning sticks, stakes, rope, etc... is a big no-no in my book here.

    
    
    
    
26. Timothy Walker

    

    0 posts
    
    11/28/2012 8:11 PM

    Hey Red - you're social skill isn't lacking, just bought a Canadian pro ore spoke very highly of you!
    
    Hope all is well

    
    
    
    
27. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    11/29/2012 6:11 AM

    Tim, what's a "Pro Ore"?
    and why would anyone want to "buy a Canadian"? unless it's a beer...and then the question remains why?

    
    
    
    
28. Clay Putnam

    

    33 posts
    
    11/29/2012 6:11 AM

    Larry Allan said: Tim, what's a "Pro Ore"?
    and why would anyone want to "buy a Canadian"? unless it's a beer...and then the question remains why?

    
    
    I like to buy Canadians as a companion to end my sentences. So when I am having a conversation with someone and I say something like, "Nice weather today", the Canadian follows that up with "Eh?".

    
    
    
    
29. Timothy Walker

    

    0 posts
    
    11/29/2012 9:11 PM

    Sorry red it was a pro core I bought - and it was a descendant from Poland who spoke very highly of you!

    
    
    
    
30. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    11/30/2012 8:11 AM

    Timothy Walker, CGCS said: Sorry red it was a pro core I bought - and it was a descendant from Poland who spoke very highly of you!

    
    
    Wow, I love the Pro Core but if I have a descendent from Poland, I will have to think back to my European travels more closely.
    Oh You mean, Zebrinski? That guy died in a horrible traffic accident years ago. Tell him to lie down.