Slow Release Liquid Fert Cancel The title field is required!

1. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   3/7/2014 7:03 AM

   I wanted to hear from some people that have experience with slow release liquid products mainly on UD Bermuda greens.
   
   Is there improved color retention?
   
   Is the growth pattern improved?
   
   Do you think it actually feeds slowly?
   
   What other benefits have been witnessed (if any)?
   
   Thanks!

   
   
   
   
2. Holt Michael

   
   3/13/2014 8:03 AM

   Dru,
   Depends on what you're meaning when you say slow release. I've used many different formulations. 30, 50 even 70% SRN on my Champion. I am still spoon feeding and that is where my application timing vs % SRN came in. The 50% seems to work better for me with my app program. Of course I think it is better for the growth habit of the UD's and it certainly holds color more consistently. As with anything in this business though, you have to use your common sense. Do I think pouring 500 gallons of a "slow release" product on your greens and it feeding 3 months is common sense, absolutely not. Is using the CRN products in smaller doses and spoon feeding them vs using a non CRN product weekly, common sense? To me it is. I don't apply any granular N to my greens but I use a lot of different liquid/soluble N formulations and at some very odd rates .

   
   
   
   
3. James Smith

   

   112 posts
   
   3/13/2014 10:03 AM

   I have been using Regal's Harness on my Tif Eagle greens for the past 14 years. I use it as a base (it is supposed to be a 10 month fertilizer) program and love it for what it does. I supplement that with granular each month to keep the growth pattern I desire. My benefit from using the slow release is that even if I get a lot of rain (leaching) or if I get bad weather where I cannot apply my granular I still have the slow release for the turf to fall back on. I find that during the winter when my greens are going in and out of dormancy the root system has something to pull its nutrients from (I do not use granular from November through March).
   
   To each his own. find what you feel comfortable with and go with that.

   
   
   
   
4. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   3/17/2014 7:03 AM

   Michael Holt, CGCS said: Dru,
   Depends on what you're meaning when you say slow release. I've used many different formulations. 30, 50 even 70% SRN on my Champion. I am still spoon feeding and that is where my application timing vs % SRN came in. The 50% seems to work better for me with my app program. Of course I think it is better for the growth habit of the UD's and it certainly holds color more consistently. As with anything in this business though, you have to use your common sense. Do I think pouring 500 gallons of a "slow release" product on your greens and it feeding 3 months is common sense, absolutely not. Is using the CRN products in smaller doses and spoon feeding them vs using a non CRN product weekly, common sense? To me it is. I don't apply any granular N to my greens but I use a lot of different liquid/soluble N formulations and at some very odd rates .

   
   
   Michael, it sounds like our programs are similar. I only use granulars at aerification at low rates of N and spoon feed throughout the season with various liquids/solubles at odd rates as well. I have been hesitant to use CRN/SRN in a liquid form up to this point but the idea of it is awesome. I am going to give some different CRN %'s a try this year.
   
   Thanks for your input.

   
   
   
   
5. Graham Kornmeyer

   

   0 posts
   
   3/17/2014 6:03 PM

   An idea if you really want to push your ultradwarf to consistently good putting conditions is to simply stop applying Nitrogen regularly. You can have consistent color by applying Iron, minor, and other micronutrients. I have gotten to a point where I use Nitrogen as a tool, if I need density for some reason it goes out, if not it is primo along with minors, potassium, and micronutrients through a weekly spoon feeding program. This is supplemented by some granular bulk amendments, still no Nitrogen unless around aerification. It may be something to play around with.

   
   
   
   
6. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   3/18/2014 10:03 AM

   Graham Kornmeyer said: An idea if you really want to push your ultradwarf to consistently good putting conditions is to simply stop applying Nitrogen regularly. You can have consistent color by applying Iron, minor, and other micronutrients. I have gotten to a point where I use Nitrogen as a tool, if I need density for some reason it goes out, if not it is primo along with minors, potassium, and micronutrients through a weekly spoon feeding program. This is supplemented by some granular bulk amendments, still no Nitrogen unless around aerification. It may be something to play around with.

   
   
   I like the idea. I dont rely on N for color honestly anyway. I use micros such as Mang and Mag and very little iron to hold color but without enough food they cant recover from our weekly verticutting... I am going less aggressive in term of depth with the verticutter this year and in turn we will need less N for recovery.

   
   
   
   
7. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   3/18/2014 5:03 PM

   I don't know how applying over .25#n/m in liquid form will last anywhere beyond two-three weeks. Especially with rain and irrigation occurring. The product simply leaches beyond the root zone.
   
   That being said, we do use controlled release liquid forms of N. Both a 70% in our weekly greens foliar and a 30% in our fairways sprays. Neither one of these is over .16#N/m and I don't expect it to last very long in our 1" rootzone on greens. That's why we apply weekly.

   
   
   
   
8. Graham Kornmeyer

   

   0 posts
   
   3/18/2014 6:03 PM

   Dru Clark said:

   Graham Kornmeyer said: An idea if you really want to push your ultradwarf to consistently good putting conditions is to simply stop applying Nitrogen regularly. You can have consistent color by applying Iron, minor, and other micronutrients. I have gotten to a point where I use Nitrogen as a tool, if I need density for some reason it goes out, if not it is primo along with minors, potassium, and micronutrients through a weekly spoon feeding program. This is supplemented by some granular bulk amendments, still no Nitrogen unless around aerification. It may be something to play around with.

   
   
   I like the idea. I dont rely on N for color honestly anyway. I use micros such as Mang and Mag and very little iron to hold color but without enough food they cant recover from our weekly verticutting... I am going less aggressive in term of depth with the verticutter this year and in turn we will need less N for recovery.

   
   
   Good thought on the less aggressive verticutting...deep verticutting=lots of Nitrogen for recovery and with that excess organic buildup, I wonder if it actually equals a negative response in regards to thatch removal/accumulation.
   
   Personally I verticut to open up the canopy in order to incorporate sand into the stolon mat. I never go deeper than 1/64" down and back on the same pass. I picked up a great tip at this year's GIS and started verticutting east to west and north to south on greens instead of directional pattern in relationship to a clock...you wouldn't believe the results...

   
   
   
   
9. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   3/18/2014 7:03 PM

   Graham Kornmeyer said:

   Dru Clark said:

   Graham Kornmeyer said: An idea if you really want to push your ultradwarf to consistently good putting conditions is to simply stop applying Nitrogen regularly. You can have consistent color by applying Iron, minor, and other micronutrients. I have gotten to a point where I use Nitrogen as a tool, if I need density for some reason it goes out, if not it is primo along with minors, potassium, and micronutrients through a weekly spoon feeding program. This is supplemented by some granular bulk amendments, still no Nitrogen unless around aerification. It may be something to play around with.

   
   
   I like the idea. I dont rely on N for color honestly anyway. I use micros such as Mang and Mag and very little iron to hold color but without enough food they cant recover from our weekly verticutting... I am going less aggressive in term of depth with the verticutter this year and in turn we will need less N for recovery.

   
   
   Good thought on the less aggressive verticutting...deep verticutting=lots of Nitrogen for recovery and with that excess organic buildup, I wonder if it actually equals a negative response in regards to thatch removal/accumulation.
   
   Personally I verticut to open up the canopy in order to incorporate sand into the stolon mat. I never go deeper than 1/64" down and back on the same pass. I picked up a great tip at this year's GIS and started verticutting east to west and north to south on greens instead of directional pattern in relationship to a clock...you wouldn't believe the results...

   
   
   I started going in cardinal directions last season without the benefit of having someone tell me to. I figured it out through trial and error. It's always nice when you can get ideas the easy way. That's why this site is sooo valuable! I would say that more aggressive + more N would equal more thatch build up. I can tell you they will lose some firmness and get slightly more puffy.

   
   
   
   
10. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/18/2014 7:03 PM

    Dru Clark said:
    I started going in cardinal directions last season without the benefit of having someone tell me to. I figured it out through trial and error. It's always nice when you can get ideas the easy way. That's why this site is sooo valuable! I would say that more aggressive + more N would equal more thatch build up. I can tell you they will lose some firmness and get slightly more puffy.

    
    
    Same here Dru. Started doing that 3 seasons ago. Went out and bought a couple of compasses. Big difference.

    
    
    
    
11. Graham Kornmeyer

    

    0 posts
    
    3/18/2014 7:03 PM

    Keith Lamb said:

    Dru Clark said:
    I started going in cardinal directions last season without the benefit of having someone tell me to. I figured it out through trial and error. It's always nice when you can get ideas the easy way. That's why this site is sooo valuable! I would say that more aggressive + more N would equal more thatch build up. I can tell you they will lose some firmness and get slightly more puffy.

    
    
    Same here Dru. Started doing that 3 seasons ago. Went out and bought a couple of compasses. Big difference.

    
    
    Those are the kind of ideas we should all be broadcasting three years ago!

    
    
    
    
12. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    3/18/2014 10:03 PM

    So Johnny Miller has a point when he mentions grain? And all we do is complain about it and him?
    
    I don't deny what you're seeing as results, I just don't get what North/South - East/West verticutting patterns has to do with anything.
    
    If you go 7 to 1 or 10 to 4 on a clock you don't see the same results?
    
    Grass is smarter than I thought.

    
    
    
    
13. Canedo Alberto J

    
    3/19/2014 7:03 AM

    I apply a 28-0-0 with a 70 % CRN (control release nitrogen) every other week at 1.25 gallons per acre and supplement it with an every other week application of Turf Royal 21-7-14 and Extreme Green 16% Iron at 50 pounds each per acre. It has worked for me at this facility and verti cut and topdress greens every other week from March to September and verti-cut/topdress once a month from October to February. We all do things different and the info I have gotten from everyone that post in here has been very helpful. Thinking outside of the box is fun, if you are able to.

    
    
    
    
14. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/19/2014 7:03 AM

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: So Johnny Miller has a point when he mentions grain? And all we do is complain about it and him?
    
    I don't deny what you're seeing as results, I just don't get what North/South - East/West verticutting patterns has to do with anything.
    
    If you go 7 to 1 or 10 to 4 on a clock you don't see the same results?
    
    Grass is smarter than I thought.

    
    
    On my UD bermuda greens, 6 to 12 on my 1 green is different than 6 to 12 on another green. Varying your mowing pattern using the clock method achieves the variance you need for everyday mowing. Basing my verticutting on compass direction gives me more consistency to my verticutting routine. It's called Phototropism. Plants move toward the light to capture energy for Photosynthesis. What grain a green has will tend to be in the east/west direction. All it takes is for you to run your hand along the turf to validate this.
    
    Johnny who?

    
    
    
    
15. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    3/19/2014 7:03 AM

    Interesting......
    
    So, when you verticut east/west, and that also happens to be the direction you are mowing for the day(3-9, 4-10, etc....) how do you adjust your mowing pattern to that you aren't mowing the same direction as the verticut? Or are you mowing behind verticutters opposite direction regardless of what is scheduled pattern for the day?

    
    
    
    
16. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/19/2014 9:03 AM

    Andy Jorgensen said: Interesting......
    
    So, when you verticut east/west, and that also happens to be the direction you are mowing for the day(3-9, 4-10, etc....) how do you adjust your mowing pattern to that you aren't mowing the same direction as the verticut? Or are you mowing behind verticutters opposite direction regardless of what is scheduled pattern for the day?

    
    
    
    I usually backtrack double cut behind the verticutting in the same direction. Just cleans them up better.
    
    And to stay on topic.....I go out weekly with a 2-0-26 Potassium Acetate, a high Mn/Mg micro package, wetting agent, bi-weekly with a 2-28-26 Phosphite and 0-50-32 Monopotassium Phosphate (Nutrol). I do supplement the foliars with bi-weekly applications of a 12-2-25 granular at .25 # N/1000.

    
    
    
    
17. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    3/19/2014 1:03 PM

    I have been using compass directions for over 10 years. It simply made sense because I was basically taught that the grass grows east to west mostly (that is what my Super at the time taught me). I hardly ever needed to verticut when we had 328 because they were in such poor shape to begin with but then I was verticutting them like you cut greens. When we switched to Tif Eagle I started a regular verticutting but noticed how little grass I took out cutting them like the greensmower did and it was looking like a checker board. So I started verticutting right back over my previous pass and changed to North and South and East and west in order to keep the grain consistant.
    
    I am pretty sure your greens do not know that they are all not facing the same direction but they do know which direction the sun rises and sets.
    
    I verticut that way to be more consistant between greens.

    
    
    
    
18. Canedo Alberto J

    
    3/19/2014 1:03 PM

    This is some very interesting vertical mowing tips that I am going to try next week. I have only 2 greens that are not facing East West when I vertical mow 6 to 12. The 2 greens that don't face east/west during the 6 to 12 cut will be mowed 3 to 9 as that is the east/west on those greens.

    
    
    
    
19. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    3/19/2014 1:03 PM

    I'm verticutting tomorrow and I'm gonna run them in the shape of the crescent moon in order to take advantage of the tide.
    
    As far as slow release liquids go, am I the only one using Uflexx?
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
20. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    3/19/2014 5:03 PM

    Man I got thread jacked! At least it's a valid/helpful topic.

    
    
    
    
21. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    3/19/2014 5:03 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: I'm verticutting tomorrow and I'm gonna run them in the shape of the crescent moon in order to take advantage of the tide.
    
    As far as slow release liquids go, am I the only one using Uflexx?
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    I have melted down uflexx with decent results but urea based products promote various diseases in spring and fall in my area.

    
    
    
    
22. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/19/2014 8:03 PM

    You could also just circle verticut them and throw away the compass........then hit them with some slow release liquid fertilizer.

    
    
    
    
23. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/20/2014 8:03 AM

    Sorry to continue to highjack this post. For all of those who are talking about compass directions, you are all dealing with bermuda?
    
    Are there any of you out there with bent that are following the compass as well?
    
    I might have to go back to my prison, airport, long way and short way directions again, anyone know how accurate the compass feature is on our phones?
    
    Thanks!
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
24. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/20/2014 8:03 AM

    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Sorry to continue to highjack this post. For all of those who are talking about compass directions, you are all dealing with bermuda?
    
    Are there any of you out there with bent that are following the compass as well?
    
    I might have to go back to my prison, airport, long way and short way directions again, anyone know how accurate the compass feature is on our phones?
    
    Thanks!
    
    Mel

    
    
    
    I'm on bermuda.
    
    My iPhone 5S compass is dead on with my traditional compass.

    
    
    
    
25. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    3/20/2014 10:03 AM

    Maybe I'm missing something here but what is the purpose of using, and paying more for, a slow release N source as a foliar feed when foliar applied products are absorbed with hours, if not minutes, of the application anyway?

    
    
    
    
26. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    3/20/2014 11:03 AM

    because we hate foliar? And the compass?

    
    
    
    
27. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/20/2014 12:03 PM

    I try to apply most of my N through a slow release granular. I use my compass to apply only in a North/South direction.

    
    
    
    
28. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    3/20/2014 12:03 PM

    Slow release liquid N isn't really used as a foliar spray in this instance. More for a soil feed. Whatever quick release is in the mix will get foliarly absorbed, the rest gets washed into the rootzone anyways. Since the liquids are highly mobile, even though they are slow-release, they will continue to leach with rainfall and irrigation. Hence my earlier comment about higher rates of liquid applied slow release N won't be very effective as it will move past the rootzone at varying speed based on soil types. In my case, USGA spec greens and 1" roots, I'd be wasting my money to apply anything more than about a .25#n/m per week.

    
    
    
    
29. Canedo Alberto J

    
    3/20/2014 12:03 PM

    I prefer using a CRN (control release nitrogen) over a SLR.

    
    
    
    
30. Curtis Nickerson

    

    0 posts
    
    3/20/2014 4:03 PM

    I was in a class the other day with Dr. Unruh, and Todd Lowe and both said there was no credit or scientific proof that ud bermuda grew down hill, toward the rising sun, toward the setting sun....hmmm