Phil Mickelson tax rant. Cancel The title field is required!

1. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   1/22/2013 7:01 PM

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Pete, I really don't care about Phil or his money (pssssss psssss....I think you do), but there are a lot of people who make a lot less money than he does who pay to watch Phil play golf and not to listen to him rant about something like taxes. Phil has the same amount of credibility regarding taxes or politics that any Hollywood actor has......none. So he should STFU.

   
   
   I guess every one of us has his own magic number at which it ain't hardly worth workin' no more if the govt is gonna take too much of it. Maybe Phil reached his number.
   
   I' don't even know what my magic number is, but I'll know it if I get there, or if it gets to me.
   
   What's your magic number, Steve?

   
   
   I'm not sure why you feel this needs to be personal, Pete. I never take things personal here, so I try not to give it, either. By the way I read your prior statemnts, I think you do care about Phil and his money, that's all.If it was Shawn Penn venting his liberal politics, you would be the first one to question his credibility. It is very difficult for me to feel sorry for millionaires who have to pay taxes. I don't think Phil expects anybody to feel sorry for him having to pay taxes on his millions. I'm not sure what you magic number is in reference to, though. The magic number is referring to tax rates. Phil is fed up at 63+%. Apparently that was enough to set him off. At what tax rate do you think you might react in a similar manner? That's all I was asking.
   
   Guys like Phil have enjoyed every advantage that this country has to offer at no personal cost. I happen to believe he has worked as hard or harder at his profession than any of us have at ours, but that's just my opinion. He never had to spend a day being uncomfortable, all he had to do was be a good golfer, which he is. People like him should be willing to pay for the advantages that they enjoy he has earned every bit of it, and I don't look at it as him having any "advantage." and have enjoyed at other people's cost. Other people's cost? Gimme a break. None of have to watch him on weekends and buy the crap the sponsors are pushing during commercial breaks, or buy Callaways, or Golf Digest, or whatever that mediaction he was pushing on tv advertisements not too long ago. Other people's cost? Ha!
   
   I don't think his kids need to dodge bullets, though. Me either.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   Steve,

   
   
   
   
2. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   1/22/2013 9:01 PM

   To me it's all relative. Most people live to their means and can only relate to their own income. A store clerk would look at us as we do to Phil. I for one would be hacked off if I had to pay 63% of my income to the man. Most of us fall within the 30% - 40% when all things are considered. Now imagine coming home with only 37% of your income. That is unreasonable IMO, regardless of a person's income and a clear indication of over spending by governments at the state and federal levels.

   
   
   
   
3. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   1/23/2013 9:01 AM

   Why don't we just tax all actors and athletes at 70% since all they do is imagine, pretend and play! Even though I have no use for Hollywood and the culture that surrounds it, I still don't think it matters what you do for a living or how much you make. When the government thinks it can take more than you are allowed to keep, something is terribly wrong. We all just keep feeding the beast and it's voracious appetite rather than demanding accountability out of all levels of government. Look at California and understand that your state is next. We are totally dysfunctional with over 50% taking rather than contributing. No state or country can survive giving money away at the levels we are now doing. It isn't what is being taken in, because there is more than enough, it is what is going out in a totally crazy uncontrolled manner. Jealously over Phil or anyone else that is successful is a clear sign of the direction we are going. The rich already pay all the taxes. When did we start thinking that someone else has more because we have less? It doesn't work that way. Nobody is penalized by Phil's success. We should respect success, not blame it! Why are we not striving for it instead of blaming it? Maybe I am just from another generation but the current logic escapes me!

   
   
   
   
4. Keith Fellenstein

   

   0 posts
   
   1/23/2013 10:01 AM

   Don't agree with "the more you make, the more you pay philosophy" all of us have had the same advantage of living and working in this great country and thus the same opportunity Phil had/has. That philosphy is a disincentive (it shouldn't matter what a person does or if they are involved in charity or not). Easy picking for the class dividers. Government grows and feeds on the division, it's bloated and self serving. He has much more credibility speaking to the situation than I because he is experiencing the effect of the policy. I respect him making the comment and am disappointed in the apology.

   
   
   
   
5. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   1/23/2013 11:01 AM

   I'm not trying to be an alarmist, just say'n, but every country that has failed has done so by either war or over taxation/demotivation. Take a look at the book "Why Nations Fail". A good insight.

   
   
   
   
6. James Schmid

   

   1 posts
   
   1/23/2013 11:01 AM

   Keith Fellenstein said: all of us have had the same advantage of living and working in this great country and thus the same opportunity Phil had/has.

   
   
   Do you honestly believe that everyone in this nation has access to the same level of opportunities?

   
   
   
   
7. Jon Gansen

   

   1 posts
   
   1/23/2013 12:01 PM

   James Schmid said:

   Keith Fellenstein said: all of us have had the same advantage of living and working in this great country and thus the same opportunity Phil had/has.

   
   
   Do you honestly believe that everyone in this nation has access to the same level of opportunities?

   
   
   For the most part yes. Do you think that all people have the same amount of drive, ambitions and work ethic and willing to take on risk for reward?

   
   
   
   
8. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   1/23/2013 12:01 PM

   Jon Gansen said:

   James Schmid said:

   Keith Fellenstein said: all of us have had the same advantage of living and working in this great country and thus the same opportunity Phil had/has.

   
   
   Do you honestly believe that everyone in this nation has access to the same level of opportunities?

   
   
   For the most part yes. Do you think that all people have the same amount of drive, ambitions and work ethic and willing to take on risk for reward?

   
   
   Jon, I would have to disagree somewhat with the question of same level of opportunity, I will say for example, in my son's high school they have broadcast journalism classes with cameras and equipment to be expose to that career, (something he is become fond of along with band and music). the small rural school in the town my mom lived in doesn't have either of those opportunities (broadcast or band) heck they don't even have football, although the kids can play for another school if they want. I'm sure it can be found all over the country situations like that. How does someone know that is a path to pursue if not exposed to it?
   
   As for the second part about drive ambitions and work ethic, I can agree with that, but I would be curious how much of that is bred by the opportunity and how much by the individual? There are many great stories of those lifting themselves out of those situations to succeed because of their ambition, work ethic, drive, and willingness to take risk, but I bet somewhere along that time someone gave them a chance or encouragement.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
9. James Schmid

   

   1 posts
   
   1/23/2013 1:01 PM

   Jon Gansen said:

   James Schmid said:

   Keith Fellenstein said: all of us have had the same advantage of living and working in this great country and thus the same opportunity Phil had/has.

   
   
   Do you honestly believe that everyone in this nation has access to the same level of opportunities?

   
   
   For the most part yes. Do you think that all people have the same amount of drive, ambitions and work ethic and willing to take on risk for reward?

   
   
   Anyone who believes that everyone in this country has the same opportunities is simply fooling themself. Anyone who believes the rich got there simply by being lucky is also fooling themself. Of course drive, work ethic, ambition, and risk tolearnce are variable factors.

   
   
   
   
10. Jon Gansen

    

    1 posts
    
    1/23/2013 1:01 PM

    Mel maybe I misunderstood but high school is a preparation for college, tech school etc. Certainly some schools offer more options but does that mean that those young people wont search out there own career path? Look at most everyone in this forum we didnt have all the tools they have today.
    
    [quote">Anyone who believes the rich got there simply by being lucky is also fooling themself. Of course drive, work ethic, ambition, and risk tolearnce are variable factors.
    
    How did they get that way? Did they step on people all the way up. Were they privileged? (Im sure some did and are.) How did the rest get on top if not their own drive to achieve?

    
    
    
    
11. Barry Provo

    

    0 posts
    
    1/23/2013 2:01 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed? How many bullets have come within a foot of his kids' heads? How many battle buddies have his kids' kept from bleeding out? Leave the country. Good riddance.

    
    
    Once again Scott, your responses and your anger is so predictable and quite honestly pathetic at times. As far as leaving the Country I have to believe Cuba would be a perfect fit for you

    
    
    
    
12. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    1/23/2013 2:01 PM

    [quote">How did they get that way? Did they step on people all the way up. Were they privileged? (Im sure some did and are.) How did the rest get on top if not their own drive to achieve?
    
    Yeah. thats pretty much what I was saying. The place where I said that drive, work ethic were variable factors. See above. People at the top have worked hard to get there for the most part. Sure there are some lazy idiots who get rich, but they are few and far between.
    
    There are also many who work hard who don't make it to the top, and in a lot of cases it can be related to the fact that they don't have the same opportunities or resources as the ones who do.
    
    New York city manages to graduate 59% of it's students. Would you argue that the kids who flunk out have done so due to their own defects or laziness? Their own lack of drive, etc.? These are kids we are talking about. Should we be writing them off saying that "well, they had the same chance as all of the other 10 year olds, they just threw it away." Did they really have the same chance as everybody else?

    
    
    
    
13. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    1/23/2013 2:01 PM

    Everyone should just look at their extended family to determine how opportunity is pursued or ignored. I bet many of you have brothers or sisters that were obviously raised by the same parents, grew up in the same neighborhoods and went to the same schools. What if I went to Community College and then finished at a 4 year school? What if my brother chose to only finish high school and another brother dropped out of high school? Lets say I never got in trouble with the law and maybe one of my brothers got busted for drugs. Lets say that I dated, got married, had kids and pursued a career and my brother got some girl pregnant and had to take a menial job to support the child. Of course the imaginary 3rd brother that got busted for drugs already has created a mess for himself. Tell me how each of these three boys was deprived of the opportunities that each of us have other than by lack of personal responsibility and bad choices. Everyone can graduate from high school. Everyone can pursue college or a trade through community colleges. Everyone that works hard enough can graduate from a 4 yr. college. Other than personal choices, where and when is anyone in this country deprived of equal opportunity? Kids that grow up in the barrio or ghetto do not all die from violence and gangs. Why do some make it out and others do not? Personal choices! Everyone in America has an equal opportunity to create a good life. Excuses are dime a dozen. People overcome adversity all the time. It may not be easy but with ambition and wise choices, everyone has equal opportunity available to them. I have seen it first hand. These brothers are not mine but composites of friends I grew up with.

    
    
    
    
14. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    1/23/2013 2:01 PM

    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Everyone should just look at their extended family to determine how opportunity is pursued or ignored. I bet many of you have brothers or sisters that were obviously raised by the same parents, grew up in the same neighborhoods and went to the same schools. What if I went to Community College and then finished at a 4 year school? What if my brother chose to only finish high school and another brother dropped out of high school? Lets say I never got in trouble with the law and maybe one of my brothers got busted for drugs. Lets say that I dated, got married, had kids and pursued a career and my brother got some girl pregnant and had to take a menial job to support the child. Of course the imaginary 3rd brother that got busted for drugs already has created a mess for himself. Tell me how each of these three boys was deprived of the opportunities that each of us have other than by lack of personal responsibility and bad choices. Everyone can graduate from high school. Everyone can pursue college or a trade through community colleges. Everyone that works hard enough can graduate from a 4 yr. college. Other than personal choices, where and when is anyone in this country deprived of equal opportunity? Kids that grow up in the barrio or ghetto do not all die from violence and gangs. Why do some make it out and others do not? Personal choices! Everyone in America has an equal opportunity to create a good life. Excuses are dime a dozen. People overcome adversity all the time. It may not be easy but with ambition and wise choices, everyone has equal opportunity available to them. I have seen it first hand. These brothers are not mine but composites of friends I grew up with.

    
    
    I had limited opportunites when I was a kid. I never had the chance to join a gang. I didn't know what gangs were, there were none in my rich, white, neighborhood. As I look at my extended family, and my childhood friends as you suggest, no gang bangers there either. They were also deprived of that opportunity. But there were a lot of success stories, so maybe, Sandy, you are right. With hard work and wise choices we all "made it out".

    
    
    
    
15. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    1/23/2013 6:01 PM

    Jon Gansen said: Mel maybe I misunderstood but high school is a preparation for college, tech school etc. Certainly some schools offer more options but does that mean that those young people wont search out there own career path? Look at most everyone in this forum we didn't have all the tools they have today.
    

    
    
    Jon, the point I made is some people are not exposed to the same things that others are, I don't think many people really just wake up and choose a career path. I will tell you I didn't choose this industry or career path first. I was looking at music or being a band director. I was exposed to the golf business through my parents who worked in the pro shop and kitchen, tended bar and took care of carts. My first job was a cart kid. I was exposed to the golf business. While starting my college career I was lucky enough to get on the course and work.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
16. Jon Gansen

    

    1 posts
    
    1/23/2013 6:01 PM

    So in other words those that succeed should pay more so they feel no guilt

    
    
    
    
17. Scott Sewell

    

    0 posts
    
    1/23/2013 8:01 PM

    What the problem is that no one can have an honest opinion in this country anymore. It is sickening that people such as Phil this instance are raked over the coals, told to move from country by some of you, and worse over what? Complaining over taxes! It's an opinion that he is free to have until some political correctness freak passes a law against having our own opinions. It sickens me for people on tv to say one thing and people want them fired and drug through the streets until dead for an opinion! I have heard countless people complain about living in California, did you tell all of them traitors? For those of you that served our country I say Thank You, but just because someone has not been shot at does not mean they are any less of an American. If most of you critics could read between the lines it not the federal taxes it is the state and local taxes that burden anyone living in California. There are many who believe that the positives outweigh the negatives but that is how it is living anywhere. I could not blame Phil for moving to Texas or Florida if he pays that much. We are in the wrong industry to hate people with money. Most of us depend on people with money to employ us and allow us to make a living doing what I love. Phil works for his money just like any of us and he deserves to want to keep as much as he can. Sorry for the rant but my pet peeve is hating to see anyone get railed for having an honest opinion whether it is right or wrong. I know I am not perfect, and if others could get over themselves and worry about something more important in life the world would be a better place.
    
    Scott Sewell, CGCS

    
    
    
    
18. Wahlin Scott B

    
    1/23/2013 8:01 PM

    My grandfather got by in the 30's working for the PWA. He also studied engineering and got his license. He took a job with GE as a General Manager and made extreme money for the day. He paid heavy taxes, but he realized it was for the good of the country, that he would not have had the opportunities he had without them. He was still able to live in a mansion in Weston, Mass, go on annual vacations to Europe, drive new luxury cars, eat whatever he wanted and honor those who were willing to give all.

    
    
    
    
19. Wahlin Scott B

    
    1/23/2013 9:01 PM

    I read on another social media forum that we need more Andy of Mayberry and less Jersey Shore. Out of curiosity I checked the tax brackets for the day: In 1960 when The Andy Griffith show started the top tax bracket was 91% on everything over $400,000. When the show ended in 1968 the highest tax bracket was 75% on everything over $200,000.

    
    
    
    
20. Steve Nelson

    

    0 posts
    
    1/24/2013 7:01 AM

    1. Mickelson is not paying 62% taxes. Every article I have read since this came out pins it at around 51% basic rate before the tax advisors go to work and make it significantly less.
    
    2. Phil has every right to worry about tax rates as it affects his bottom line. If he moved to FL for business reasons he would not be the first, nor the last professional golfer to do so.
    
    3. Yes, taxes in California are high. But for the wealthy, there is probably no better place to live in the US. Phil for the present chooses to stay here despite the higher taxes because his lifestyle in beautiful San Diego county is pretty darn nice.
    
    4. Phil's only mistake was complaining about it publicly, because the majority of the fan base that makes his earnings possible earns significantly less than Phil. Alienating the fan base has the potential to affect his bottom line more than increasing taxes so complaining pubicly was a bad business decision. Hence the apology.

    
    
    
    
21. Steve Nelson

    

    0 posts
    
    1/24/2013 7:01 AM

    PS- Good luck this week at Torrey Phil

    
    
    
    
22. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    1/24/2013 8:01 AM

    Steve Nelson, CGCS said:
    
    4. Phil's only mistake was complaining about it publicly, because the majority of the fan base that makes his earnings possible earns significantly less than Phil. Alienating the fan base has the potential to affect his bottom line more than increasing taxes so complaining pubicly was a bad business decision. Hence the apology.

    
    
    Alienating the fan base??? I'll bet a beer or two in San Diego to the first few takers that Phil will get a big enough round of applause that it will probably stop play around the course - and few, if any boos - as he's he's announced on the first tee.

    
    
    
    
23. Canedo Alberto J

    
    1/24/2013 8:01 AM

    Lefty might as well move to Arizona and play on the 2 golf courses he owns.

    
    
    
    
24. Clay Putnam

    

    33 posts
    
    1/24/2013 9:01 AM

    Steve Nelson, CGCS said: 1. Mickelson is not paying 62% taxes. Every article I have read since this came out pins it at around 51% basic rate before the tax advisors go to work and make it significantly less.
    

    
    
    The 51% represents his state and federal [u">income[/u"> tax. Now add in the rest and its higher. Probably not 63% but higher than 51%.

    
    
    
    
25. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    1/24/2013 9:01 AM

    It isn't just the high income people leaving California. Within my group of close friends, 4 have decided to move away due to added cost of retirement living in California versus other states. Can you afford to retire in a place that has some if not the highest cost for gas in the country? Can you afford to stay based on what the tax rates will do to your long saved retirement funds? Can you afford to allow your retirement income to purchase less when living in Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Texas or other states will allow you to reduce your expenses by 15% or more? This is all very hard for me as a native San Diegan. I will have to face this reality in a few short years. I would hate to leave but reality may force me to. My other friends have already made that decision. It boils down to needing to make a decision that fits your situation best. California is driving way too many people away. Phil is no different. He just happens to have earned (through very hard work), more than all of us supts can imagine. He pays enormous dollars in taxes and constantly gives back to the community. He is a very charitable person. California is probably going to lose him due to a tax policy that will work counter to what it is supposed to do.

    
    
    
    
26. Steve Nelson

    

    0 posts
    
    1/24/2013 10:01 AM

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    
    Alienating the fan base??? I'll bet a beer or two in San Diego to the first few takers that Phil will get a big enough round of applause that it will probably stop play around the course - and few, if any boos - as he's he's announced on the first tee.

    
    
    I understand what you are saying but the bottom line is the apology was a business decision. He and his advisors know where his money comes from.

    
    
    
    
27. Steve Nelson

    

    0 posts
    
    1/24/2013 10:01 AM

    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
    The 51% represents his state and federal [u">income[/u"> tax. Now add in the rest and its higher. Probably not 63% but higher than 51%.

    
    
    The articles on the subject take all the tax implications under consideration. Remember that state & local taxes paid are deductible from federal taxes, investment earnings taxed at a lower rate etc. The consistent figure was around 51% before the tax advisors got to work with charites, trusts, deductible business expenses and the like.
    
    PS- I'm not saying this is not a lot to pay, it is. Much of what Sandy said in another post about many retiring outside of California due to cost of living is very true. Just trying to interject the reality of his actual tax burden v. what others are saying. Most of the articles go on to say that he could easily save a couple mil per year by moving to FL

    
    
    
    
28. Barry Provo

    

    0 posts
    
    1/24/2013 10:01 AM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed? How many bullets have come within a foot of his kids' heads? How many battle buddies have his kids' kept from bleeding out? Leave the country. Good riddance.

    
    
    
    Scott you may want to take a look in the mirror, your the first to criticize fox news and Rush about the damage they do, with what you call their hate. If you would have posted that you were upset with Phil's comments any why, that is professional and I would respect that. This post is not professional, and I guarantee the a high percentage of the Pga Pros you feel are more Professional then us, would feel the same way about this Post. Next time you post you may want to practice what you preach. FYI I know your Kid is in the Military, you do not have to explain the post to me

    
    
    
    
29. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    1/24/2013 11:01 AM

    Steve Nelson, CGCS said:

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    
    Alienating the fan base??? I'll bet a beer or two in San Diego to the first few takers that Phil will get a big enough round of applause that it will probably stop play around the course - and few, if any boos - as he's he's announced on the first tee.

    
    
    I understand what you are saying but the bottom line is the apology was a business decision. He and his advisors know where his money comes from.

    
    
    He and his advisors are wrong about that.

    
    
    
    
30. Ashton Alan W

    
    1/24/2013 11:01 AM

    I did like his apology... he hit it off line and then played smart and wedged it back into play.
    
    Done deal for me.