Trimmit rates on bentgrass greens

Mark Murphy

0 posts

3/12/2016 6:03 PM

Hey, I am looking for rates for Trimmit on bentgrass greens and how much irrigation post application.

Thanks,

Mark

Jeffrey Sexton

0 posts

3/13/2016 7:03 AM

I have done 16-21 oz. spring and fall, 8 oz. all summer long. If you want to make them putt well put 6 oz. primo with the 8 oz. trimmit rate. Irrigate same night 8-10 min. These are all acre rates. Good luck.

Joshua Sawyer

0 posts

3/14/2016 6:03 AM

Not as aggressive with Trimmit in southeast on bent...I use it for Poa seed head suppression in the spring and transition to Primo in summer. I start in the fall at 8 oz, then get up to around 12 to 16 oz, depending on weather. I have found that higher rates will really slow down the bent during the early spring months. Trying to control seed heads and still heal in from aerifications...good luck.

Craig Moore

0 posts

3/14/2016 10:03 AM

I started out at 8-16 oz/Acre years ago but last year I sprayed at 38 oz/Acre in June-July-August with no issues on our greens.
Great product

Clay Putnam

33 posts

3/14/2016 6:03 PM

Has anyone else sprayed high rates a la Craig? We went as high as 44 oz per acre last year with no ill affects. We are holding the Poa in check but no real reduction. I'm wondering if we are getting resistance? Ineffective product? I'm switching products this year to see if we can make headway on the Poa.

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/15/2016 9:03 AM

Maybe it's assumed but the missing piece of the puzzle is the frequency of the applications in the above replies. I'm assuming its every two weeks?

We spray Trimmit at 14 ounces per acre every two weeks during the growing season. If I recall from reading up on Trimmit, both species are regulated for a certain period of time and then the bent comes out of regulation first, makes its gains on the Poa, and then the Poa comes out of regulation. The trick is to find a rate and frequency where there are a few days when the bent is not as regulated so it can do its thing, creep over the Poa. I think an issue with the higher rates may be that both species are continually regulated, the bent then does not creep as much as intended, and the conversion rate is lessened under that regime. There may be some gains but possibly not as much. I think that is why, if I recall, the label says something about spraying at a 6 week intervals at the higher rates. The period then when the bent is not regulated is longer. But I'm sure green speed, etc is an issue under that regime. Maybe I'm full of it, but off the top of my head I believe this is the mechanism behind how Trimmit is suppose to encourage bent over Poa.

The other thing to work out is a post application irrigation rate where the Trimmit is moved into and not past the current Poa root zone. When we have great roots I don't worry too much about it but when the Poa is extremely shallow rooted I try not to apply more than .25" of post application irrigation.

Clay Putnam

33 posts

3/15/2016 2:03 PM

Ronald Conard, CGCS said: Maybe it's assumed but the missing piece of the puzzle is the frequency of the applications in the above replies. I'm assuming its every two weeks?

We spray Trimmit at 14 ounces per acre every two weeks during the growing season. If I recall from reading up on Trimmit, both species are regulated for a certain period of time and then the bent comes out of regulation first, makes its gains on the Poa, and then the Poa comes out of regulation. The trick is to find a rate and frequency where there are a few days when the bent is not as regulated so it can do its thing, creep over the Poa. I think an issue with the higher rates may be that both species are continually regulated, the bent then does not creep as much as intended, and the conversion rate is lessened under that regime. There may be some gains but possibly not as much. I think that is why, if I recall, the label says something about spraying at a 6 week intervals at the higher rates. The period then when the bent is not regulated is longer. But I'm sure green speed, etc is an issue under that regime. Maybe I'm full of it, but off the top of my head I believe this is the mechanism behind how Trimmit is suppose to encourage bent over Poa.

The other thing to work out is a post application irrigation rate where the Trimmit is moved into and not past the current Poa root zone. When we have great roots I don't worry too much about it but when the Poa is extremely shallow rooted I try not to apply more than .25" of post application irrigation.

Ron,

Yes, they were two week apps. As for the regulation of the Bent vs Poa, it has been suggested to me that paclobutrazol regulates Poa more than bent, therefore, the bent should out compete the Poa even during periods of regulation.

Mark Murphy

0 posts

3/15/2016 6:03 PM

Is everyone using Trimmit or post patent product?

Thanks,

Mark

Craig Moore

0 posts

3/16/2016 5:03 AM

I use Trimmit on our greens but I am going to start using post patent Paclo this year on Apps/fwy on one of our courses. Post Patent products are 1/2 the price.

Clay Putnam

33 posts

3/16/2016 8:03 AM

Mark Murphy said: Is everyone using Trimmit or post patent product?

Thanks,

Mark

Used them both.

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/16/2016 8:03 AM

Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
Ronald Conard, CGCS said: Maybe it's assumed but the missing piece of the puzzle is the frequency of the applications in the above replies. I'm assuming its every two weeks?

We spray Trimmit at 14 ounces per acre every two weeks during the growing season. If I recall from reading up on Trimmit, both species are regulated for a certain period of time and then the bent comes out of regulation first, makes its gains on the Poa, and then the Poa comes out of regulation. The trick is to find a rate and frequency where there are a few days when the bent is not as regulated so it can do its thing, creep over the Poa. I think an issue with the higher rates may be that both species are continually regulated, the bent then does not creep as much as intended, and the conversion rate is lessened under that regime. There may be some gains but possibly not as much. I think that is why, if I recall, the label says something about spraying at a 6 week intervals at the higher rates. The period then when the bent is not regulated is longer. But I'm sure green speed, etc is an issue under that regime. Maybe I'm full of it, but off the top of my head I believe this is the mechanism behind how Trimmit is suppose to encourage bent over Poa.

The other thing to work out is a post application irrigation rate where the Trimmit is moved into and not past the current Poa root zone. When we have great roots I don't worry too much about it but when the Poa is extremely shallow rooted I try not to apply more than .25" of post application irrigation.

Ron,

Yes, they were two week apps. As for the regulation of the Bent vs Poa, it has been suggested to me that paclobutrazol regulates Poa more than bent, therefore, the bent should out compete the Poa even during periods of regulation.

Clay,

I looked everywhere yesterday to see if I could find the article I was referring to but no luck. You are right in that the Poa is more regulated than the bent and should out compete on this basis alone. But I do think there is a potential to further enhance the competition factor towards the end of the regulation period as the bents come out of regulation sooner. It's just something to think about and see if it does in fact work that way. I seem to think I see it but who knows?

Clay Putnam

33 posts

3/16/2016 1:03 PM

Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
Ronald Conard, CGCS said: Maybe it's assumed but the missing piece of the puzzle is the frequency of the applications in the above replies. I'm assuming its every two weeks?

We spray Trimmit at 14 ounces per acre every two weeks during the growing season. If I recall from reading up on Trimmit, both species are regulated for a certain period of time and then the bent comes out of regulation first, makes its gains on the Poa, and then the Poa comes out of regulation. The trick is to find a rate and frequency where there are a few days when the bent is not as regulated so it can do its thing, creep over the Poa. I think an issue with the higher rates may be that both species are continually regulated, the bent then does not creep as much as intended, and the conversion rate is lessened under that regime. There may be some gains but possibly not as much. I think that is why, if I recall, the label says something about spraying at a 6 week intervals at the higher rates. The period then when the bent is not regulated is longer. But I'm sure green speed, etc is an issue under that regime. Maybe I'm full of it, but off the top of my head I believe this is the mechanism behind how Trimmit is suppose to encourage bent over Poa.

The other thing to work out is a post application irrigation rate where the Trimmit is moved into and not past the current Poa root zone. When we have great roots I don't worry too much about it but when the Poa is extremely shallow rooted I try not to apply more than .25" of post application irrigation.

Ron,

Yes, they were two week apps. As for the regulation of the Bent vs Poa, it has been suggested to me that paclobutrazol regulates Poa more than bent, therefore, the bent should out compete the Poa even during periods of regulation.

Clay,

I looked everywhere yesterday to see if I could find the article I was referring to but no luck. You are right in that the Poa is more regulated than the bent and should out compete on this basis alone. But I do think there is a potential to further enhance the competition factor towards the end of the regulation period as the bents come out of regulation sooner. It's just something to think about and see if it does in fact work that way. I seem to think I see it but who knows?

I just spoke with a rep this morning about this topic and he said that several supers in the northern Indiana area have experienced similar issues as I, worked great year 1 then not so much the subsequent years. I am moving onto Cutless this year. We'll see...

Matt Plosila

0 posts

3/16/2016 3:03 PM

I think your limited to 3 applications per year. Maybe they don't want you spraying this every couple weeks because of the resistance issues.

Dwayne Dillinger

2 posts

3/16/2016 4:03 PM

We have been using Trimmit on greens for quite a few years and just the past couple have noticed it to not be as effective as in the past. Considering mixing 12 oz acre trimmit with 6 oz acre Cutless.

Has anyone tried this?

Mark Murphy

0 posts

3/16/2016 6:03 PM

Group,

Just thinking outside the box, how many of you have been using "plant health" products, Dac Action, BASF products that may keep the POA stronger?

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/17/2016 8:03 AM

Matt Plosila said: I think your limited to 3 applications per year. Maybe they don't want you spraying this every couple weeks because of the resistance issues.

I haven't seen that before. The label states not more than 4 quarts per acre per year. A high rate like 42 oz per acre would then be limited to three applications per year.

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/17/2016 8:03 AM

Dwayne Dillinger, CGCS said: We have been using Trimmit on greens for quite a few years and just the past couple have noticed it to not be as effective as in the past. Considering mixing 12 oz acre trimmit with 6 oz acre Cutless.

Has anyone tried this?

Dwayne,

I did something similar transitioning from Cutless to Trimmit a few years ago. I had no issues whatsoever and may consider doing it again in the near future if resistance becomes a problem.

Melvin Waldron

43 posts

3/17/2016 10:03 AM

Mark Murphy said: Group,

Just thinking outside the box, how many of you have been using "plant health" products, Dac Action, BASF products that may keep the POA stronger?

Mark,

Interesting thought. I have always wondered, when we have asked each other questions about products, "what besides that product is that person doing?" Especially when we sometimes see contradicting results.

Mel

Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

Matt Plosila

0 posts

3/17/2016 3:03 PM

Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
Matt Plosila said: I think your limited to 3 applications per year. Maybe they don't want you spraying this every couple weeks because of the resistance issues.

I haven't seen that before. The label states not more than 4 quarts per acre per year. A high rate like 42 oz per acre would then be limited to three applications per year.

I guess it depends how your looking at it. 3 apps at 8 oz/A versus 3 apps at 40 oz/A The lower rate puts you under the AI limit but it still went out on three separate occasions. Its worth investigating more and I hope your right.

Matt Plosila

0 posts

3/20/2016 10:03 AM

Matt Plosila said:
Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
Matt Plosila said: I think your limited to 3 applications per year. Maybe they don't want you spraying this every couple weeks because of the resistance issues.

I haven't seen that before. The label states not more than 4 quarts per acre per year. A high rate like 42 oz per acre would then be limited to three applications per year.

I guess it depends how your looking at it. 3 apps at 8 oz/A versus 3 apps at 40 oz/A The lower rate puts you under the AI limit but it still went out on three separate occasions. Its worth investigating more and I hope your right.

Here is the wording from the label that brought me to the 3 applications per year. Thoughts?

"A repeat application of Tide Paclo 2SC within the same growing season may be made 8 weeks apart for growth regulation & 4 to 6 weeks apart for color, quality enhancement after the initial application. Do not make more than 3 applications per calendar year. Do not apply more than 4 quarts per acre per year (2 lbs. a.i./A). "

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/21/2016 8:03 AM

Matt Plosila said:
Matt Plosila said:
Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
Matt Plosila said: I think your limited to 3 applications per year. Maybe they don't want you spraying this every couple weeks because of the resistance issues.

I haven't seen that before. The label states not more than 4 quarts per acre per year. A high rate like 42 oz per acre would then be limited to three applications per year.

I guess it depends how your looking at it. 3 apps at 8 oz/A versus 3 apps at 40 oz/A The lower rate puts you under the AI limit but it still went out on three separate occasions. Its worth investigating more and I hope your right.

Here is the wording from the label that brought me to the 3 applications per year. Thoughts?

"A repeat application of Tide Paclo 2SC within the same growing season may be made 8 weeks apart for growth regulation & 4 to 6 weeks apart for color, quality enhancement after the initial application. Do not make more than 3 applications per calendar year. Do not apply more than 4 quarts per acre per year (2 lbs. a.i./A). "

That seems like a poorly worded label. The Trimmit SC label does not have the wording "Do not make more than 3 applications per calendar year." Only "do not apply more than 4 quarts per acre per year (2 lbs. a.i./A)" I'm guessing whoever wrote the label did not take into consideration the 16 oz/acre rate for bentgrass greens. If I had a choice and I wanted to stay on an every two week program at lower rates I would go with the Trimmit SC.

The Trimmit SC label states:

"For Growth Regulation
Repeat applications can be made within the same growing season as long as the turf is actively growing. Turfgrass species and growth rate will dictate rate and timing of applications. Do not apply more than 4 quarts per acre per year (2 lb. a.i./A).

For Poa annua Suppression
Trimmit 2SC will suppress the growth and competitive ability of Poa annua. Apply when Poa annua is actively growing at 16 to 32 ounces per acre. Lower rates and more frequent applications can be made if Poa annua
discoloration cannot be tolerated. However, only moderate Poa annua suppression may be achieved. Do not apply more than 4 quarts per acre per year (2 lb. a.i./A"

http://www.greencastonline.com/current-label/Trimmit-2SC

Matt Plosila

0 posts

3/21/2016 7:03 PM

Always learning something. I guess its a good reminder to read the labels of all your stuff. Wonder why the difference besides "trimmit" having a bit more AI/gal. Gonna have to get that label changed. Thanks for the lesson Ronald.

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