Dimension question Cancel The title field is required!

1. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   8/31/2016 8:08 AM

   Does anyone have a good answer to what causes Dimension to break down and loose its pre-emergent properties? I ask because we have a green that struggles with goosegrass every year, we see some issues on other greens as well, but nothing like this green. This green along with one built the same time dry out quicker than any other greens, (I have to wonder if it's a different particle sizes), so it gets watered a lot more than some of our others, especially now with having the moisture meter tool.
   
   I was wondering is the Dimension being broken down by water? Or does it break down by microbial activity? I have heard to maybe try some Anderson's Crab/Goosegrass, which I have used farther up on the east coast with some great success, but a few comments about using it in the transition zone, has scared me.
   
   Of course I could maybe just apply to this one problem green?
   
   Thanks,
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
2. Mike Hundley

   

   0 posts
   
   9/3/2016 8:09 AM

   Based off our last few years in our area, I would speculate the added irrigation is the factor. We have had above average rainfall here and if you haven't put down a booster app weeds have been imminent. Wonder if you could add another app to that green alone next season?

   
   
   
   
3. Michael Palmer

   

   0 posts
   
   12/6/2016 9:12 AM

   I work at a course in the transition zone. I have used Anderson's Crab/Goose control for years on our old push-up bentgrass greens. Have had great success with the product, but be careful not to overlap, and use around 2.8 lbs per/ 1ooo sq. ft. water in well , have had a little burn if applied any more than that. But I am very happy to have this product ! Have tried dimension in the past with limited results.

   
   
   
   
4. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   12/6/2016 12:12 PM

   In my experience Dimension is not going to give you good control over goosegrass. The Ronstar(Oxadiazon) in the Andersons product is what is going to give you the goosegrass control. In the Andersons product, Ronstar is 1.31%. Ronstar G is 2%. I struggle with goosegrass every year and the Andersons has given me inconsistent results so I'm going with Ronstar G at a couple 1/3 rates 2 weeks apart. Had good results on my nursery green with this.....and Ronstar G is significantly cheaper.

   
   
   
   
5. Jeffrey Sexton

   

   0 posts
   
   12/7/2016 10:12 AM

   I would not use Ronstar G on bentgrass putting greens Mel!! Smoke city followed by a resume critique session.

   
   
   
   
6. Ventola Steven M

   
   12/7/2016 3:12 PM

   For what it's worth, I have south facing slopes that break through a fall pre-emerge dimension app on hybrid Bermuda. So 2+2 = warmer soil = more microbial activity = chemicals being broken down more rapidly, that is my non-scientific conclusion.

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   12/8/2016 8:12 AM

   Jeffrey Sexton said: I would not use Ronstar G on bentgrass putting greens Mel!! Smoke city followed by a resume critique session.

   
   
   Thanks, although I work for a city so I can technically I believe get 2 chances to smoke greens before a resume critique session occurs (or get transferred to mowing in the parks)?
   
   I have heard to be very careful with the Andersons Goose/Crab as well. We did use it my second full season here and then we had a USGA visit, and was told I was brave applying that on bent in the transition zone, (this was probably 10 years ago), so I stopped using it. I'm going to think long and hard over this winter, I might try it on a couple of our worse greens with goose maybe 1/2 rate times 2 (definitely have plans to hit the Andersons booth at the GIS this year), and the other option that has been suggested was going with dimension at a lower percentage and increasing my applications. Might try that on the other greens next year.
   
   I do remember putting down a 5-5-20 w/Ronstar product on our zoysia collars and we had one of those spreaders with the shield attachment, which I had put down so we wouldn't throw any on the greens, we had a nice burn ring in the collars from that.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   12/8/2016 9:12 AM

   Steven M Ventola said: For what it's worth, I have south facing slopes that break through a fall pre-emerge dimension app on hybrid Bermuda. So 2+2 = warmer soil = more microbial activity = chemicals being broken down more rapidly, that is my non-scientific conclusion.

   
   
   Steve,
   
   I think that is a good observation and I'm guessing pretty darn accurate. I'm guessing that is the cause of part of our break down. I do think water plays a part as well. The one green we get the worse goose, is also one of the two greens that dry down the quickest on us, so we are always putting more water on it, than some of the others. I'm guessing that is playing a part as well. We don't see a lot of goose on our other greens, (well 2 to 3 will usually see some goose in high traffic areas) when we make our 2 split applications of Dimension, but we do see some more on greens that don't normally get it when we have lots of rain.
   
   Thanks!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
9. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   12/8/2016 2:12 PM

   To clarify, I have bermuda greens. Andersons and Dimension are the only product labeled for bentgrass greens.

   
   
   
   
10. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    12/8/2016 9:12 PM

    Keith Lamb said: To clarify, I have bermuda greens. Andersons and Dimension are the only product labeled for bentgrass greens.

    
    
    Thanks!
    
    I hadn't had a chance to check the Ronstar G label so no biggy.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
11. Robert Crockett

    

    4 posts
    
    12/18/2016 4:12 PM

    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Does anyone have a good answer to what causes Dimension to break down and loose its pre-emergent properties? I ask because we have a green that struggles with goosegrass every year, we see some issues on other greens as well, but nothing like this green. This green along with one built the same time dry out quicker than any other greens, (I have to wonder if it's a different particle sizes), so it gets watered a lot more than some of our others, especially now with having the moisture meter tool.
    
    I was wondering is the Dimension being broken down by water? Or does it break down by microbial activity? I have heard to maybe try some Anderson's Crab/Goosegrass, which I have used farther up on the east coast with some great success, but a few comments about using it in the transition zone, has scared me.
    
    Of course I could maybe just apply to this one problem green?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mel

    
    I could have sworn "Anderson's" has the granular Dithiopyr + Oxidiazon. I know Dimension is great for crab but not for goose. Bensulide for crab takes toooo many apps and seems to break down IMO. Dimension gives a great window for application and pre and post properties. Post up to the 3 leaf stage. That's why I like it. Might have to make a separate app on the ronstar. Just an idea. https://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/e233/ Merry Christmas Sir!!

    
    
    
    
12. Steven Hollembeak

    

    0 posts
    
    12/20/2016 12:12 PM

    Melvin, go half rate, opposite directions, two weeks apart if you use, goose-crab product. That was the recommended way to apply it when it first came on the market. Don't know if you remember Dave Wolfard, he was our area Scotts rep in the seventies and eighties, this came from him.
    
    Steve Hollembeak
    Supt. Winfield CC

    
    
    
    
13. T Storie

    

    0 posts
    
    12/24/2016 10:12 PM

    I had this same question I posed to Dr Aaron Patton, about Dimension. Dimension according to him has a similar mode of action as all other Dinitroanalyns, Bensumec etc and actually Ronstar is not that far off either.Not sure how its broken down. Specticle (which is not labeled for greens) and will probably kill bent is the only chemistry that is radically different. I used the Goose and Crab many years on bent with great success and I am two hours south of you. I lost greens twice in my career once to Dimension and once to Pythium. I have Bermuda now! I think Illoxan is off market but we did use it occasionally as a post emergent at very low rates with high rates of water.