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The economy must be good.....

25 posts
  1. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    8/21/2015 9:08 AM
    I've been trying to hire a laborer for 3 weeks. So far, I've had 4 men and 1 woman call about the job and make an appt to come in for an application / interview. Of those five, two have actually showed up. One guy was clearly not lucid about what he was applying for and the other guy was an hour late. 3 of them haven't bothered to show up at all.
    5% unemployment means that everybody who wants a job has one and apparently I'm dealing with the hard core unemployed. I guess I'll wait for the snowbirds to come back and try to hire a retired guy part time.

    Regards,

    Steve



  2. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    8/21/2015 9:08 AM
    We are down 15 people on our crew currently. We are advertising everywhere we can and have even participated in and conducted our own job fairs. The last job fair had 17 total applicants for over 50 open positions in our company. We are competing we several new and expanding companies here in town that are paying a much higher starting wage than us. It's a tough market currently and I can only see it getting worse.



  3. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    8/21/2015 10:08 AM
    I'm offering a $250 bonus to any of my guys who brings in someone who lasts more than 90 days. So far, no takers. The Chef is trying to hire dishwashers for 15 bucks an hour, so I can't even compete with him.



  4. Brent Venenga
    Brent Venenga avatar
    0 posts
    8/21/2015 10:08 AM
    Same here I've been trying to hire grounds crew for some time and nobody even applies. I have a few of my crew say you know what Taco John's and Jimmie Johns is paying just to start.

    Sioux Falls, SD



  5. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    8/21/2015 12:08 PM
    Maybe it is time for me to go back to work. I don't want to do irrigation repairs, but I can bus tables and wash dishes for $15 per hour.



  6. Gregory Pattinson
    Gregory Pattinson avatar
    0 posts
    8/21/2015 12:08 PM
    same problem up north. I hired a guy and he never showed up for his first day, have had dozens of calls and no one ever shows up to fill an application out. I am to the point that if they show up at all to inquire about a job, i hire them on the spot. Not ideal, but under the circumstances there are not many other options.

    Greg Pattinson
    Highland Meadows Golf Club
    Sylvania OH



  7. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    8/21/2015 4:08 PM
    Gregory Pattinson said: same problem up north. I hired a guy and he never showed up for his first day, have had dozens of calls and no one ever shows up to fill an application out. I am to the point that if they show up at all to inquire about a job, i hire them on the spot. Not ideal, but under the circumstances there are not many other options.

    Greg Pattinson
    Highland Meadows Golf Club
    Sylvania OH



    I had a guy that was supposed to meet with me at 10 am today. I was gonna hire him on the spot without ever laying eyes on him. He never showed.

    Steve



  8. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    8/21/2015 5:08 PM
    Steve. Psst. Steve. Hire me. $15/hr. I'll stay up north, send me a check every other week, and I'll cut ya in. Hmm? Hmm?...



  9. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    8/21/2015 8:08 PM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: Steve. Psst. Steve. Hire me. $15/hr. I'll stay up north, send me a check every other week, and I'll cut ya in. Hmm? Hmm?...


    We're gonna get rich, man.....



  10. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    8/22/2015 7:08 AM
    No different up here. My issue is who wants to take a job for the first of September only to get laid off mid October? The weak of mind, criminals and those a few weeks short of weeks of collecting pogey...that's who.



  11. Jeffrey Sexton
    Jeffrey Sexton avatar
    0 posts
    8/22/2015 7:08 PM
    Same here in Indiana. The car wash is hiring for $11 per hour. Our type of work is too hard for people. I have heard, the flu, car won't start. Who gets the flu in the middle of July? The government has made it too easy to stay at home on the couch.



  12. Michael Rogers
    Michael Rogers avatar
    2 posts
    8/23/2015 7:08 AM
    Does this mean the democrats are going to stay in the presidency? hee hee hee Maybe the Donald??



  13. Craig Moore
    Craig Moore avatar
    0 posts
    8/23/2015 10:08 AM
    Same situation way up here on the banks of Lake Superior. Being a college town we never had an issue with help until the last few years. I only hire kids that want to work part time around their class schedule in the fall but the work ethic of these young folks has gone way down hill. As soon as school starts 3/4 of them go back on their word and bail. They get these overage student loan checks that not only pay for their classes/rent/food but also pays for their drinking and sleeping in - I know because they brag about it to my good core staff members.
    All of the other applicants I have received this year are unemployable with no references or convicted wife beaters. Both of which I will not hire.
    Sad situation these days - Thank God for my core staff members that come back every year.
    Our work load really increase in late August but we get it done.
    Good Luck



  14. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    8/23/2015 6:08 PM
    Craig Moore said: Same situation way up here on the banks of Lake Superior. Being a college town we never had an issue with help until the last few years. I only hire kids that want to work part time around their class schedule in the fall but the work ethic of these young folks has gone way down hill. As soon as school starts 3/4 of them go back on their word and bail. They get these overage student loan checks that not only pay for their classes/rent/food but also pays for their drinking and sleeping in - I know because they brag about it to my good core staff members.
    All of the other applicants I have received this year are unemployable with no references or convicted wife beaters. Both of which I will not hire.
    Sad situation these days - Thank God for my core staff members that come back every year.
    Our work load really increase in late August but we get it done.
    Good Luck


    Well I remember quite a few years ago when I took Econ 101 and they taught us that at 5% unemployment, anybody who wanted a job had one. That means we are competing for the dregs of the remaining jobless population. I am not of the opinion that young people won't work, it's just that they have more choices I think and they won't do this sort of work. I know my kids work hard, I think we are just at that point where those people who are willing to work hard are already working.
    The demographic is a bit skewed down here as well. We have depended for years on a reliable force of immigrant labor, mostly illegal. I used to be able to just spread the word among the crew that I was hiring and I would have at least one guy waiting for me the next day. Now that we are required to hire only legal labor that pool of labor has to go elsewhere. The other thing is that construction is booming and the guys I'm after can get $16 an hour and 60 hours a week working as a construction laborer.
    There are unintended consequences to every political action and the push to punish illegals has resulted in a labor shortage here. I am personally against using illegal labor, I think it lowers wages for everyone, including me but the consequences are that you have to pay more for a shrinking labor pool. Unfortunately, paying more is a problem.
    I keep hearing people talk about how rough the economy is and wages have definitely not kept up, but if the unemployment rate is any indication of the health of the economy, I would have to say that it's doing pretty well right now.
    How that affects the elections, I don't know....
    In the meantime, I have had 2 more no shows for appointments to fill out applications and I am of the opinion that if you can't be bothered to be on time for an appointment with me, I can't use you. I would rather have no one than a lousy someone. I will wait for the snowbirds to come back and see if I can hire a retiree, those guys always show up.

    Regards,

    Steve



  15. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    8/24/2015 5:08 AM
    Craig Moore said: Same situation way up here on the banks of Lake Superior. Being a college town we never had an issue with help until the last few years. I only hire kids that want to work part time around their class schedule in the fall but the work ethic of these young folks has gone way down hill. As soon as school starts 3/4 of them go back on their word and bail. They get these overage student loan checks that not only pay for their classes/rent/food but also pays for their drinking and sleeping in - I know because they brag about it to my good core staff members.
    All of the other applicants I have received this year are unemployable with no references or convicted wife beaters. Both of which I will not hire.
    Sad situation these days - Thank God for my core staff members that come back every year.
    Our work load really increase in late August but we get it done.
    Good Luck

    I have an accused but non convicted wife beater, an MLM guru waiting for his ship to come in, a fireman, an ex cop,an ex teacher, an ex BC salmon fisherman and boat builder, and a hole changer who's only claim to fame being he has at one time or another tried every drug known to humanity and has now settled on 3 joints with his morning coffee before leaving for work.(of course, I am not aware of this) . On the good side I have a 16 year old high school student who can outwork just about anyone. I hope he is representative of the next generation



  16. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    8/24/2015 6:08 AM
    Anyone who says kids don't like to work have not followed a Drum Corp for the summer. They work from usually 8 AM to 10 PM, 7 days a week from mid-May to the first week of August. They get 3 free days maybe 4 to explore the big city they are in, and do laundry. It is so grueling, volunteers and drivers are shuttled on and off tour.

    I have had 3 good workers the last couple of years and 2 of them are music majors.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  17. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    8/24/2015 9:08 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Anyone who says kids don't like to work have not followed a Drum Corp for the summer. They work from usually 8 AM to 10 PM, 7 days a week from mid-May to the first week of August. They get 3 free days maybe 4 to explore the big city they are in, and do laundry. It is so grueling, volunteers and drivers are shuttled on and off tour.

    I have had 3 good workers the last couple of years and 2 of them are music majors.

    Mel


    Did they learn that in band camp?



  18. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    8/24/2015 10:08 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Anyone who says kids don't like to work have not followed a Drum Corp for the summer. They work from usually 8 AM to 10 PM, 7 days a week from mid-May to the first week of August. They get 3 free days maybe 4 to explore the big city they are in, and do laundry. It is so grueling, volunteers and drivers are shuttled on and off tour.

    I have had 3 good workers the last couple of years and 2 of them are music majors.

    Mel


    Did they learn that in band camp?


    That one time at band camp they learned a work ethic?

    Yes, yes they did.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  19. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    8/25/2015 3:08 PM
    The unemployment rate is not an accurate tool. The BLS Civilian labor force participation rate is at it's lowest point since about 1980. http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

    The following gives charts showing the value of government welfare programs. Table 3 on page 8 shows the hourly wage equivalent. In Indiana, we would need to pay $11.01 per hour to be able to compete with what the government pays. So, stay at home and get government handouts, or as in our situation, work for less at the golf course? http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f ... 013_wp.pdf

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  20. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    8/26/2015 8:08 AM
    Who knew the economy was so good?

    I have not been able to fill all positions this year. Talk here about a $13.50 min wage will not help that either. I find that the only people who can afford to work for us seasonally are semi-retired, independently wealthy or people who whose spouse is the breadwinner, kids who live at home, and the occasional odd duck. How does someone live on $10/hr. One good thing is, most of the chronically unemployed generally have health issues they are no longer seeking employment for the health benefits since they are getting it free on the exchange. This has always been part of the reason for rising costs for employer provided healthcare.



  21. R. Scott Woodhead
    R. Scott Woodhead avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2015 12:09 PM
    Posted on behalf of a member who wishes to remain anonymous.

    I believe that the golf industry needs to do a better job fiscally by keeping up with inflation in regards to wages. Clubs need to provide us with the opportunity to offer a more competitive wage to entice seasonal employees. Because, to respond to an earlier post on this thread, you can't live on $10/hour. However, I believe these low wages don't just apply to general labor but irrigation/spray techs, assistants and in many cases on up to superintendents.

    The cost of living continues to go up, the cost to maintain golf courses continues to go up yet budgets & wages remain stagnant or are reduced. How long has the general golf course laborer wage been $10/hour? How long have technician and assistant wages remained stagnant? I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with golf course wages and believe there needs to be a dramatic shift which provides livable wages for general labor and a wage that reflects the education, dedication and expertise that technicians, assistants and superintendents have. If these changes don't occur happen I do not believe the future of the industry is very bright.

    R. Scott Woodhead, CAE, CGCS Retired
    Director of Member Relations



  22. Robert Wagner
    Robert Wagner avatar
    2 posts
    9/8/2015 1:09 PM
    Anonymous Poster is dead on.

    Wags



  23. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    9/8/2015 3:09 PM
    R. Scott Woodhead said: Posted on behalf of a member who wishes to remain anonymous.

    I believe that the golf industry needs to do a better job fiscally by keeping up with inflation in regards to wages. Clubs need to provide us with the opportunity to offer a more competitive wage to entice seasonal employees. Because, to respond to an earlier post on this thread, you can't live on $10/hour. However, I believe these low wages don't just apply to general labor but irrigation/spray techs, assistants and in many cases on up to superintendents.

    The cost of living continues to go up, the cost to maintain golf courses continues to go up yet budgets & wages remain stagnant or are reduced. How long has the general golf course laborer wage been $10/hour? How long have technician and assistant wages remained stagnant? I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with golf course wages and believe there needs to be a dramatic shift which provides livable wages for general labor and a wage that reflects the education, dedication and expertise that technicians, assistants and superintendents have. If these changes don't occur happen I do not believe the future of the industry is very bright.

    R. Scott Woodhead, CAE, CGCS Retired
    Director of Member Relations


    Dear Anonymous,

    You're correct in that budgets have trended downward over the last several years and generally, the largest line item to absorb those budget cuts is labor. It certainly would be labor utopia had budgets paralleled increases in cost of living. However, the reality is the recession hit the recreation market particularly hard and the affects are still lingering. Now lets add into the mix; golf course competition, declining wages of all demographics, tighter time demands on families, and the loss of the Tiger Woods as drivers of golf rounds. The result was and continues to be substantially less revenue for golf courses. Less revenue = less resources available for the golf course = declining budgets = stagnant wages. This is the reality of our profession at the moment. No one finds comfort in this reality but the fact remains wages are not going upward fast anytime soon. The only way to increase the wage line item is to increase revenue or decrease other expense line items by less inputs of applications and tasks. We, the golf maintenance industry, are our own worst enemies in this regard. We continue to introduce more labor intensive maintenance practices, I.e., fairway rollers to name one. I thought for sure I would see more gang mowers back on fairways to reduce labor inputs but this hasn't happened. We continue to complain about less resources yet our industry continues to introduce products and equipment that require additional resources (narrower fairway mowers/greens mowers/etc). We can only blame the economy for so long before the finger is pointed right back at ourselves and the equipment industry.



  24. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    9/9/2015 8:09 AM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
    R. Scott Woodhead said: Posted on behalf of a member who wishes to remain anonymous.

    I believe that the golf industry needs to do a better job fiscally by keeping up with inflation in regards to wages. Clubs need to provide us with the opportunity to offer a more competitive wage to entice seasonal employees. Because, to respond to an earlier post on this thread, you can't live on $10/hour. However, I believe these low wages don't just apply to general labor but irrigation/spray techs, assistants and in many cases on up to superintendents.

    The cost of living continues to go up, the cost to maintain golf courses continues to go up yet budgets & wages remain stagnant or are reduced. How long has the general golf course laborer wage been $10/hour? How long have technician and assistant wages remained stagnant? I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with golf course wages and believe there needs to be a dramatic shift which provides livable wages for general labor and a wage that reflects the education, dedication and expertise that technicians, assistants and superintendents have. If these changes don't occur happen I do not believe the future of the industry is very bright.

    R. Scott Woodhead, CAE, CGCS Retired
    Director of Member Relations


    Dear Anonymous,

    You're correct in that budgets have trended downward over the last several years and generally, the largest line item to absorb those budget cuts is labor. It certainly would be labor utopia had budgets paralleled increases in cost of living. However, the reality is the recession hit the recreation market particularly hard and the affects are still lingering. Now lets add into the mix; golf course competition, declining wages of all demographics, tighter time demands on families, and the loss of the Tiger Woods as drivers of golf rounds. The result was and continues to be substantially less revenue for golf courses. Less revenue = less resources available for the golf course = declining budgets = stagnant wages. This is the reality of our profession at the moment. No one finds comfort in this reality but the fact remains wages are not going upward fast anytime soon. The only way to increase the wage line item is to increase revenue or decrease other expense line items by less inputs of applications and tasks. We, the golf maintenance industry, are our own worst enemies in this regard. We continue to introduce more labor intensive maintenance practices, I.e., fairway rollers to name one. I thought for sure I would see more gang mowers back on fairways to reduce labor inputs but this hasn't happened. We continue to complain about less resources yet our industry continues to introduce products and equipment that require additional resources (narrower fairway mowers/greens mowers/etc). We can only blame the economy for so long before the finger is pointed right back at ourselves and the equipment industry.


    I have to agree with much if not all of what Clay is saying. Of course to keep up with increased cost comes increased greens fees, I can't believe what some courses charge, even ours. I wouldn't pay that much to play my goat ranch.

    And we wonder why we can't increase golfers, "You mean it cost that much to go out and frustrate myself?" Unless they can be kept playing through those frustrating times to learn and enjoy the beauty of this game. Of course we also have to do something to compete against all of the kids activities. I know all through our son's high school years, his activities came first (not to say I didn't enjoy all of those activities and it was great family fun, as those of my twitter and Facebook friends know all to well).

    Anonymous is right as well, I know what our staffs do is not rocket science, but depending on what we ask of them, it isn't unskilled either. We should be paying more then the fast food places (who around here are starting at $8.00 an hour, with convince stores starting at $10).

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  25. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    9/9/2015 10:09 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    I have to agree with much if not all of what Clay is saying. Of course to keep up with increased cost comes increased greens fees, I can't believe what some courses charge, even ours. I wouldn't pay that much to play my goat ranch.

    And we wonder why we can't increase golfers, "You mean it cost that much to go out and frustrate myself?" Unless they can be kept playing through those frustrating times to learn and enjoy the beauty of this game.
    Mel



    Donald Trump was crucified by the Golf Industry's "talking heads" when he said that "golf should be aspirational". Funny thing is IMHO he is correct. When the golf talking heads attacked Trump it only confirmed their disconnect from our social reality. Exclusive does not mean exclusionary! Golf has being trying to pretend that it is inclusive, that it is creating opportunities, but most of these efforts are simply a exercise in protecting the Game. There should be nothing wrong with elite country clubs that are not exclusionary based on race, creed, sex, and the handful of other social classification that exist today.

    You dont do this job to get rich, but you should make a decent wage and so should your employees. 99% of my seasonal part time employees could be working full time somewhere if they wanted, but for many different reasons they like the seasonal work on the golf course. I never have trouble getting qualified applicants for full time w/benefits positions. This season after mid June our HR department could not attract anyone to apply for seasonal grounds positions in either of my golf or landscape maintenance departments, and we had to fill in with Emergency hire's for 30 days at a time. We even removed Marijuana from our pre-employment drug screen because the pool of entry level workers has shrunk and we need people (Pot is legal in Oregon since July 1,2015).



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