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LF 3400 Starting Problem

16 posts
  1. Chuck Barber
    Chuck Barber avatar
    0 posts
    10/14/2011 10:10 AM
    OK, we have a 2000 LF 3400 fairway mower. It will start but not STAY started. The problem is not any of the following:

    - it is not the starter
    - it is not the ignition switch/key/ignition of any kind
    - it is not a safety switch/sensor or anything

    Our mechanic wants me to buy a $1800 controller box from Jac because the controller box powers everything coming out of the control power. There is NOT 12 v of electricity coming from the controller box EXCEPT when the key is turned and when you let go the engine stops. We have found that if you wiggle the key around like a bastard it will stay started but we are unsure as to why.

    any help before we spend $2k on this would be super.

    Thanks



  2. Matt Falvo
    Matt Falvo avatar
    0 posts
    10/14/2011 11:10 AM
    It sounds like a ground problem if you can wiggle the ignition switch and it will stay running. Add a good ground to the panel the ignition switch is in and clean the metal that the ignition switch touches on the panel in case it needs a "body" ground for the switch itself.


    Bret Hart
    Equipment Manager
    Turning Stone Resort



  3. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/14/2011 1:10 PM
    Probably not the problem but many many years ago we had a problem with a Toro 84 triplex, with I think a single cylinder Kohler. We could keep it running while holding the key in start, but it would die when we let go of it. Finally someone decided to check the oil level there was a safety switch for oil level on that mower.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  4. Henry Heinz
    Henry Heinz avatar
    0 posts
    10/14/2011 6:10 PM
    Have you checked the fuel hold solenoid? There is a ground, power wire /pull for starting, and a hold wire that keeps the solenoid energized. You may have a break in the wire and therefore it does not have 12+ volts to hold and so it shuts down when you let off the key. By holding the key switch your keeping 12 volts going to the pull wire so it keeps running. I'd check it out first.



  5. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    10/16/2011 7:10 AM
    I remember us experiencing this same problem and want to say the fuel solenoid had issues like another poster. I know it was not the computer. The only issues we had with the computer was the contacts were slowly going bad. I remember my equipment tech cleaning the contacts on the computer a few times to correct issue and at one point he had to tie strap the connectors to the computer.

    I would thoroughly check the fuel solenoid. hot wire it to get it to work first and then trace the problem. I will ask my equipment tech tomorrow about the issue.



  6. Chuck Barber
    Chuck Barber avatar
    0 posts
    10/19/2011 6:10 AM
    Thanks for all the suggestions guys but so far none of these potential causes are the problem we're facing. I wonder if we have other options beside buying a Jac controller for $2K? We're not getting a new mower any time soon and I bought this piece used. A $2k fix represents exactly half the cost of the machine.



  7. Dinger Greg
    Dinger Greg avatar
    10/19/2011 6:10 AM
    What about hiring the Jac guy to come verify your diagnosis, and or have them fix it? This may end up cheaper in the long run. Then the 2k gamble is on them.

    Besides the 2k for the part, what has all this downtime cost you?



  8. Chuck Barber
    Chuck Barber avatar
    0 posts
    10/19/2011 8:10 AM
    Admittedly not much in the way of downtown and I would estimate about $100 in diagnosing/lift time for our tech and that is a VERY heavily padded number. I think the Jac tech visit is next on the list because if he can find a problem and it isn't the control box it will, in all likelihood, save us a ton of dough. Thanks. I will keep you posted.



  9. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    10/20/2011 8:10 AM
    gcbarber1 said: OK, we have a 2000 LF 3400 fairway mower. It will start but not STAY started. The problem is not any of the following:

    - it is not the starter
    - it is not the ignition switch/key/ignition of any kind
    - it is not a safety switch/sensor or anything

    Our mechanic wants me to buy a $1800 controller box from Jac because the controller box powers everything coming out of the control power. There is NOT 12 v of electricity coming from the controller box EXCEPT when the key is turned and when you let go the engine stops. We have found that if you wiggle the key around like a bastard it will stay started but we are unsure as to why.

    any help before we spend $2k on this would be super.

    Thanks

    Ok sorry it took so long for me to get back to you but here are a few more things to check from my equipment tech.

    First he said that bad battery cable connections may cause this problem so if you have not disconnected them and cleaned them start there first.

    second he said check all of your fuses on the main fuse board. not for being burnt out but rather to make sure the connections are clean and making contact as that would also cause the problem.

    Third he said try pushing in on the cable connections going to the bottom of the controller as our had come a little loose from time to time causing the same issue.

    and last he said to test the wires going to the fuel selonoid for power. there is three wires going to the selonoid, when the key is turned to start two of the three wire should be hot and when you let go of the key (put in run) only one wire should still have power. he said you have to punch a hole in the wires to test them with your light tester.

    if these do not work get back to me and I will again ask him for more advice. understand we have two of these units and he has been keeping them running since 1999 and we have seen simular issues through the years. these are just the easiest things to trouble shoot which is where you start. Remember also that as these units get older contacts tend to corrode and do not make great contact anymore and have to be cleaned. getting some contact cleaner and spraying all of your contacts to the controller and to the fuese may be a good thing to try because they may need it anyway if you have not already done it.

    Good luck.



  10. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    10/20/2011 9:10 AM
    My equipment tech had just told me that it is very highly unlikely that the computer is the problem. He said it is more likely to be one of the above or a safety switch like the neutral or brake switch. We generally jump out these switches when we are trouble shooting, (seat switch, lift arm switch, brake switch, neutral switch) .
    Good luck



  11. Henry Heinz
    Henry Heinz avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2011 11:10 AM
    Right out of the 3400 service and repair manual; engine starts but shuts down when the ignition switch is released. Faulty solenoid, or a faulty controller.

    Maybe you can try your controller in a neighboring courses unit to verify it's working.

    Also the red LED #34 should be on, indicating power to fuel solenoid hold. Its a red/yellow coming from the controller to the solenoid. Check for power at the controller, and then at the solenoid. Also, do yourself a favor and get the little prick-punch wire test adaptors by Fluke. They will put such a small prick into the the wire that it will seal back up, as apposed to the size hole the test light leaves. I would recommend using a power probe and you can power up the hold wire to the solenoid and see if it stays running. The power probe is a great tool to have, test circuits, power up or ground them out, test voltage. It cuts trouble shooting time in half.



  12. Chuck Barber
    Chuck Barber avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2011 7:10 PM
    Alright, some progress. I will get this info to our technician right away.

    I have to put this out there and finish with a question:

    I called our Jacobsen distributor for them to send a tech out who can troubleshoot with our equipment technician. The service dept confirmed the appointment and then called our technician to verify as well. Our technician told them not to bother as 'all the stuff they're going to do I've already done.' He canceled the service call without speaking with me first.

    Do any of the technicians on this forum have an opinion you'd like to share about the appropriateness of that interaction? This all happened this morning.

    Thanks.



  13. Henry Heinz
    Henry Heinz avatar
    0 posts
    10/21/2011 5:10 AM
    Get the Jac guy back and have him verify the controller, that way if its not then it's on them, "the Jac dist" not you. It's a simple security measure and I don't why someone would have a problem with it. There is no shame or weakness in asking for help, it's actually a sign of strength, and you can gain some knowledge as well.



  14. Dinger Greg
    Dinger Greg avatar
    10/21/2011 5:10 AM
    One of the strongest managerial traits I have been around is the talent to lead someone into making things their idea... Just sayin'



  15. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    10/21/2011 9:10 AM
    Another Prima Donna mechanic.......right Greg?



  16. Dinger Greg
    Dinger Greg avatar
    10/21/2011 1:10 PM
    I think they are fortunate to have a Service Tech close enough to call on. Ours is 8 hours away, in another state! Think I could get him here for a $75 service call? That's why we are so lucky to have the tech network we have, at least for us!



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