Using your TDR 300 or similar Cancel The title field is required!

1. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/21/2013 3:03 PM

   Hi all,
   
   Just received my TDR 300, have been out playing with it already, simply amazed at what readings I have already seen, even with a heavy rain last Saturday/Sunday. Took some readings yesterday and averaged up around 20% on a couple of greens, although with the ridge in the one I could see the drop off and the difference between the back and front.
   
   Picked two different greens this morning and one averaged 19.8% and the other 14.1% which I thought was crazy. Of course I am reminded that I have to "find" my numbers. These are on sand based USGA spec (so I've been told) greens. I am also using the 3" rods right now, wondering if I should have got the 5" for the spring when my roots are down deeper.
   
   I have a couple of questions for those already using them. Do I need to switch to the hi-clay readings on my four native soil greens?
   
   How are you all going about checking your greens? Do you pick certain ones? Do you do all? How many places do you check per green?
   I was thinking of doing all 18, well maybe until I get used to the meter at least? and hitting them in 9 spots, (just like pin placements)
   
   And the other big question is, how are you recording your information? I know it comes with software to download on my computer, do all of you use that? (I haven't tried loading mine yet, most likely will have to have someone from IT with administrative privileges come out and load it on my PC)
   I was thinking of using something like a pin placement sheet, the one with 9 circles per page without the pins placed on them and writing down the numbers, only bad thing is I'm lucky to remember the 3 numbers I get from front to back of the green.
   
   Anyone using or able to download the information on their iPads?
   
   Thanks for any help you can give me.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
2. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   3/22/2013 6:03 AM

   Mel,
   
   The soil moisture meters are a great tool when used properly. Going out and taking readings, then doing nothing with them is a waste of time and money. Ideally, you would check several areas on the greens and hand water just the spots that need it. I know this is more labor intensive, but that is the point of precision water management and using a moisture meter. It will also help you reduce your overall water usage. Sure, you can check some spots and turn on the overheads, but wouldn't that overwater the areas that were fine? Unless your irrigation distribution is perfect, which I doubt. The numbers you gather will eventually help you extend your watering intervals and takes the guesswork out of deciding when to irrigate.
   
   We have had a couple of the TDR 300's for a few years now. Absolutely love them and they are used every single day. We can get the greens consistent from one side to the other using them. It's also helped us find how dry we can really get them for tournaments and events without letting them go over the edge.

   
   
   
   
3. Dennis Ingram

   

   5 posts
   
   3/22/2013 7:03 AM

   Send me your email address and I will send you a copy of our spread sheet which can be adjusted to your on particular needs. As you stated above, this is just another tool to help manage your greens but understand your "number" will change from season to season. With strong roots in the spring and early summer your "pre-wilt" number may be 15 but by late summer that number may increase to 20 as roots may decline.
   
   dennisingram@pgatourhq.com

   
   
   
   
4. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/22/2013 8:03 AM

   Thanks Andy,
   
   Making more precise water applications are my main goals, just like wanting to do more irrigation audits. I hate when the guys just run over to the boxes to turn them on, not knowing what is really getting put down. I am looking at what kind of rotation so to speak when checking greens, how people are recording their readings, maybe different ideas of marking locations for someone following with a hose, (although maybe it's just me with a hose right then and there), I don't want to invent the wheel and I'm trying to not over-do the process by thinking or inventing the perfect process.
   
   I did an audit on one of my greens last fall and it was amazing to find a spot not getting half the water the area around it was. I showed the guys that why they can't rely on just popping on heads. So they are more responsive to getting out there with the hose.
   
   I can see using this everyday even with our smaller staff, just trying to figure out what will work best for us compared to some other programs I've seen. I was at a seminar this past winter and one course sends at least 3 crews out just in the morning, 1 who spot checks the green and then places flags for the staff member to hand water areas as needed. Then 2 other crews probing every two steps with a staff member with a hose working with him. Then they repeat as needed during the day and afternoon. They also find that when they have a spot holding over a certain number, they will actually go out and needle tine the area to get more oxygen back into the soil. Heck I don't have that many staff members maintaining the course as it is, so their system is out, but I did like some of their marking methods.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
5. Keith Fellenstein

   

   0 posts
   
   3/22/2013 11:03 AM

   Don't believe in spreadsheets or downloading numbers to a computer. That number is a snapshot of conditions at that moment. I find it most helpful to guys handwatering to have one with them to determine where and how much to add in the mornings and monitoring in the afternoon. We sample as much as 30 times a green (or more) depending on conditions. I went back and forth about the length of probes and switching mid season. We found it added another variable we would have to account for and made it more complicated. We use the 3" all year long and will adjust our "number" based on the health of the greens (last year it stayed the same throughout the season).

   
   
   
   
6. Jon Maddern

   

   0 posts
   
   3/23/2013 5:03 PM

   Melvin:
   
   I suggest with your USGA greens in summer you take readings of 3" and 8" because if you rely only on the 3" you will get a day where the bottom dries out quickly and it will not be good. Learned this at Torrey on Memorial
   Day of '08. If you really want to learn a great deal about using your meter to max you should contact John Cunningham at Bellerive CC. I learned a great deal from him when he was at TPC Los Calinas in Dallas.

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/25/2013 8:03 AM

   Dennis, thanks for the offer, mwaldron@springfieldmo.gov is my e-mail address.
   
   Jon, thanks for that idea, that second set of tines I have heard would come in handy, just wasn't sure which length to go with. One of John's assistants Johnathan Prage gave a round table presentation at a winter conference, of how they use their moisture meters and that's what led me to purchasing one. There is no way we could monitor how they do, but I could see a use for us. I was thinking their second set of tines were 5" ones, but it was brought up about watching out for the soil getting too dry deeper in the profile.
   
   Thanks!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Jon Maddern

   

   0 posts
   
   3/26/2013 6:03 AM

   Melvin I think they are like 4.5" and then 8". There is a shorter set at 1.5". Finding your capillary pore space from soil tests will give a ballpark on where your number should be.

   
   
   
   
9. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/27/2013 4:03 PM

   Went out and recorded some of my greens, I will attempt to attach the chart I made for myself. The readings were with the 3" rods, (I double checked my invoice to make sure), on USGA sand based greens that are about 20 years old. We had snow over the weekend and most of it melted yesterday, so I am guessing that is why there are some high readings and then some much dryer as the snow left sooner. I do have a ridge running through my 4th and 5th greens, and that is why I thought they were dryer there.
   
   Just interesting numbers, curious what others might think of them. I know most any issues is from the recent snow, what I am taking from these numbers is how different some of the readings are and this will really come in handy when we have to start irrigating.
   
   Thanks!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
10. Larry Stowell

    

    0 posts
    
    3/28/2013 9:03 AM

    Volumetric moisture content depends upon the moisture release curve for the sand and depth of the sand. For a USGA spec sand at 12 inches, 25% VWC seems reasonable for field capacity when the greens are a few years old. The way to find out how well the greens are draining is to flush greens (irrigate until water flows from the drains, 15 minutes or so with half heads turned in) and check soil moisture the following day after they have drained. That value will let you know how low you can drop soil moisture by flushing. If water starts to accumulate after light irrigation or light rain you can flush it out to prevent anaerobic conditions and black layer.

    
    
    
    
11. Todd Currie

    

    2 posts
    
    4/1/2013 9:04 PM

    Mel,
    
    I was able to get my first 300 in spring of 2012. After two weeks I picked up 2 more. I am very frugal with H2O, especially on greens. We probe all greens, daily when required, during severe heat 2-3 times. We will take up to 50 probes per green. I like to break the green into thirds like our pin positions. (front,middle,back)It has taken the guessing completely out of handwatering. We have found labor savings by the elimination of the guess work of the past, plus the speed which we can probe. We went through one of the most stressful summers in 2012 and used less water on our putting surfaces. Training staff to handwater has never been easier with this tool.
    
    Enjoy this technology. I rank it up there with the 648 and spinner topdresser.
    
    Todd Currie
    West Haven Golf & Country Club
    London, ON