Question about 3-way products Cancel The title field is required!

1. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   5/10/2013 12:05 PM

   This might be more for us old timers but I was wondering:
   
   What is the difference between Dimethylamine Salt (in Vessel)
   and Monoethanolamine Salt (in Millennium Ultra) Is this what was know as MCPP? Is MCPP the same thing as Clopyralid?
   
   Just wondering if there was a difference and could it be why I might be seeing some different control of more so clover between the two products. I know the 3 pint per acre rate of Vessel kick dandelions butts last fall, where I sprayed along fairway edges very few dandelions, outside of where I sprayed there is a ton of dandelions. Millennium seems to work better in the spring then Vessel at the 2 pint rate, I wonder if even going up to the 3 pint rate would get rid of the clover, it just kind of dings it at 2 pint rate. 3 pint rate of Vessel did not take out clover in the fall, dinged it up some. I'm thinking best to get the clover is some Drive. I do know the 2-4 D and Dicamba percentages are different between the Vessel and Millennium also and could that be the difference in the control?
   
   Thanks!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
2. Jack Stephens

   

   0 posts
   
   5/10/2013 1:05 PM

   Mel,
   
   Not quite an old-timer but if you are targeting clover, have a look at Q4 plus. It has the active's of Drive, Dismiss along with 2-4D and Dicamba; A three-way plus one!
   They market it as a MSMA replacement. Good for most C3's and some C4's.
   
   In relation to your other post, Katana and Q4 may be worth a shot in a test area.
   
   Brad Stephens
   Assistant Superintendent
   King and Bear-World Golf Village Resort.

   
   
   
   
3. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   5/10/2013 3:05 PM

   Thanks Brad, we have been using some Q4. I used some around our fairways in our cool season roughs about 4 years or so ago and it worked great. We are using some now to spot spray on some clover and dandelions on some of our bermuda tees and also have spot spray a little on fairways. It is working well for that, but I do remember spraying the end of a tank full of Q4 one year on a little par 3 bermuda fairway that we believe the variety is baby bermuda that was sprigged from our sister course when it was built. I know it's not quickstand because when we converted our other fairways we had them skip this par 3. Well making a short story long, the Q4 cleaned up the fairway but did discolor it for a while. I only did one pass and it did stand out.
   
   My one concern spraying so much Q4 is cost per acre. The rate is 7 to 8 pints, I haven't done the math yet, I wonder if just spraying Drive might be cheaper? Like I said I haven't done the math yet.
   
   We are still spraying some MSMA in the summer, a lot of spot spraying and having to turn my booms off every so often to stick with the label.
   
   Thanks!!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
4. Timothy Walker

   

   0 posts
   
   5/12/2013 9:05 AM

   Mcpp is Mecoprop or methylchlorophenoxypropionic acid
   
   Lontrel is good for clover... .1 oz/1000
   
   I believe the millennium rate is 3-4 pints per acre. At 4 pints per acre you should get satisfactory control.

   
   
   
   
5. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   5/13/2013 10:05 AM

   Thanks Tim,
   
   I did go back and check the rate of Millennium, it is 2 to 3 pints per acre for both cool and warm season grasses. Last year I was checking my records and I was spraying Millennium in my zoysia collars to take out some broadleaf and knotweed, I did go at the 2 pint per acre rate and it worked ok. Went back and sprayed some other areas at the 3 pint rate, did good on the dandelions but the clover it was marginal.
   
   I will look into the Lontrel.
   
   Thanks, Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
6. Timothy Walker

   

   0 posts
   
   5/13/2013 4:05 PM

   Mel - confront is also good on clover if that is your real weed issue.

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   5/14/2013 7:05 AM

   Thanks Tim,
   
   The clover is one issue, the dandelions another, knot weed in bermuda fairways another. I think a little more fertilizer would also help. I was working at a golf course in Northern Indiana and had Dr. Reicher stop by when he was at Purdue, actually brought along Dr. Patton who was a grad student at the time. We were touring the golf course and he was amazed at what little weed pressure we had and asked what we were doing pre-emergent wise. I said nothing we couldn't afford it, but we were fertilizing pretty good at the time, so I always have said the best pre-emergent is fertilizer.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO