Is GCSAA doing anything about the new wave spikes? Cancel The title field is required!

1. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   7/17/2015 12:07 PM

   Where is the GCSAA regarding this? All the hard work and research are out the window when shoe manufactures go ahead market these things.
   
   
   [attachment=1">IMG_20150717_060520710.jpg[/attachment">

   
   
   
   
2. Chris Flowers

   

   0 posts
   
   7/18/2015 7:07 AM

   what FJ shoe is that?

   
   
   
   
3. Dustin Riley

   

   8 posts
   
   7/19/2015 6:07 AM

   I just saw those also. They look like they should be worn by NFL players. Why even add the soft spike, there are so many other spikes throughout the bottom of the shoe.

   
   
   
   
4. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   7/19/2015 8:07 AM

   I think a great start would be telling your pro shop merchandiser to send them back from where they came. But first ask "what the heck were you thinking when you bought those." Answer will be..........."I could make 60% margin!"

   
   
   
   
5. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   7/19/2015 2:07 PM

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said: I think a great start would be telling your pro shop merchandiser to send them back from where they came. But first ask "what the heck were you thinking when you bought those." Answer will be..........."I could make 60% margin!"

   
   
   I already did but it was sloughed off as someone else's responsibility. Same with the golfers. "What are my shoes going to hurt? I'm just one player." Multiple those crampons by 250 to 300 rounds and we've lost all control of providing a decent putting surface. Besides, most golfer purchase their gear from other outlets besides the pro shop.
   
   Typical of society today. All about me.
   
   At any rate, I take it we as an organization have yet to start the process of discussing this with the manufactures. We successfully banned the old school metal spikes. Is there any chance to develop an acceptable spike standard?

   
   
   
   
6. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   7/19/2015 3:07 PM

   Do you seriously expect the GCSAA to do anything about that?

   
   
   
   
7. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   7/19/2015 3:07 PM

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Do you seriously expect the GCSAA to do anything about that?

   
   
   
   Actually as part of an alliance, yes. Why not? Stranger things have happened. But by the response here you may be right.
   
   So I wrote an email.
   
   "Dr. Erusha,
   
   I'm sure by now you have received a number of complaints from golf course superintendents and I would hope players as well about the latest evolution of the golf spike. I've attached a couple of photos of the latest FootJoy shoe. We recently held the Wyoming State Amateur and the Wyoming Open on successive weeks and had the course in prime shape. That is until a few behemoths trampled the greens wearing the latest and greatest in golf footwear.
   
   I personally can not think of anything that more negatively impacts the enjoyment of the game than these shoes. We as an industry banned the metal spikes a decade or more ago. Is the USGA doing anything about these new shoes? I've enquired with the GCSAA but unfortunately our organization is not all that powerful acting on it's own.
   
   It's a little disconcerting to see, as an industry, all the advances we have made in sustainability and course conditioning to see it all thrown away by the greed of the golf shoe manufacturers. Does anyone playing the game really need this type of grip? If one is swinging properly one does not need spikes at all let alone to this degree.
   
   I've been around a long time in this business and as a superintendent this could be the most mindless "innovation" I've ever seen.
   
   
   Thank you for all you do. I look forward to your response as to the course of action the USGA plans to undertake."

   
   
   
   
8. Keith Pegg

   

   0 posts
   
   7/19/2015 4:07 PM

   Ronald Conard, CGCS said:

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Do you seriously expect the GCSAA to do anything about that?

   
   
   
   Actually as part of an alliance, yes. Why not? Stranger things have happened. But by the response here you may be right.
   
   So I wrote an email.
   
   "Dr. Erusha,
   
   I'm sure by now you have received a number of complaints from golf course superintendents and I would hope players as well about the latest evolution of the golf spike. I've attached a couple of photos of the latest FootJoy shoe. We recently held the Wyoming State Amateur and the Wyoming Open on successive weeks and had the course in prime shape. That is until a few behemoths trampled the greens wearing the latest and greatest in golf footwear.
   
   I personally can not think of anything that more negatively impacts the enjoyment of the game than these shoes. We as an industry banned the metal spikes a decade or more ago. Is the USGA doing anything about these new shoes? I've enquired with the GCSAA but unfortunately our organization is not all that powerful acting on it's own.
   
   It's a little disconcerting to see, as an industry, all the advances we have made in sustainability and course conditioning to see it all thrown away by the greed of the golf shoe manufacturers. Does anyone playing the game really need this type of grip? If one is swinging properly one does not need spikes at all let alone to this degree.
   
   I've been around a long time in this business and as a superintendent this could be the most mindless "innovation" I've ever seen.
   
   
   Thank you for all you do. I look forward to your response as to the course of action the USGA plans to undertake."

   
   
   
   Well said, I see them here in Japan and they are sold in every golf shop except on golf courses.
   Keith.

   
   
   
   
9. Barry Provo

   

   0 posts
   
   7/21/2015 10:07 AM

   I'm glad this was brought up again!! it's a real problem! has anyone tried to call someone at the GCSAA to get the ball rolling ,with trying to address the shoe companies with our concerns?? Tim Moraghan wrote a great article about this a couple months back, that I believe appeared in Golf Course Industry Mag.

   
   
   
   
10. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    7/21/2015 12:07 PM

    Barry Provo said: I'm glad this was brought up again!! it's a real problem! has anyone tried to call someone at the GCSAA to get the ball rolling ,with trying to address the shoe companies with our concerns?? Tim Moraghan wrote a great article about this a couple months back, that I believe appeared in Golf Course Industry Mag.

    
    
    I sent an email to the Board of Directors and one member replied. Apparently the issue has been discussed by the Board but as I understand it no plan of attack has been formulated. I was told I may receive an update after the Board's summer meeting.
    
    I also received a reply from our USGA Regional Agronomist. While understanding the sentiments out there, the course of action suggested was that the ban on any specific style of tread that is causing an issue should be undertaken course by course until it trickles through the industry. My concern with that approach is that how does one even develop a standard by which one type of shoe can be banned and another not, especially considering that the design of these treads changes yearly? At least in the old days a metal spike was metal spike and it was easy enough to explain why they were being banned and other footwear not.

    
    
    
    
11. Clay Putnam

    

    33 posts
    
    7/21/2015 1:07 PM

    Ronald Conard, CGCS said:

    Barry Provo said: I'm glad this was brought up again!! it's a real problem! has anyone tried to call someone at the GCSAA to get the ball rolling ,with trying to address the shoe companies with our concerns?? Tim Moraghan wrote a great article about this a couple months back, that I believe appeared in Golf Course Industry Mag.

    
    
    I sent an email to the Board of Directors and one member replied. Apparently the issue has been discussed by the Board but as I understand it no plan of attack has been formulated. I was told I may receive an update after the Board's summer meeting.
    
    I also received a reply from our USGA Regional Agronomist. While understanding the sentiments out there, the course of action suggested was that the ban on any specific style of tread that is causing an issue should be undertaken course by course until it trickles through the industry. My concern with that approach is that how does one even develop a standard by which one type of shoe can be banned and another not, especially considering that the design of these treads changes yearly? At least in the old days a metal spike was metal spike and it was easy enough to explain why they were being banned and other footwear not.

    
    
    Your regional agronomist has dropped back and punted. The USGA regulates golf clubs & golf balls for "the good of the game". Taking a pass on the spikes isn't surprising. The USGA is a web of contradiction. Good luck.

    
    
    
    
12. R. Scott Woodhead

    

    0 posts
    
    7/21/2015 4:07 PM

    Ron - GCSAA is working to create a unified approach to share our concerns on the impact these aggressive designs have on the smoothness and overall playability of putting surfaces. The Board is working closely with staff to coordinate these communications which may include an offer of assistance to manufacturers in evaluating the impact of specific soft spike design on the putting surfaces. We will keep the membership updated on this effort moving forward.
    
    R. Scott Woodhead, CAE, CGCS Retired
    Director - Member Relations

    
    
    
    
13. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    7/29/2015 12:07 PM

    The following was in response from an request from "my pro" (there's a flip of the script) to FootJoy to replace the shoes in the picture above. I chuckled when I read his reply.
    
    
    [quote">HI Tom,
    
    I do not know of any other club banning HyperFlex for cleat damage to the greens, and I don't know of any issues with the testing that we've done with the shoes. Almost every shoe made can damage the green if they drag / scuff a foot. I can understand the superintendents concern, but all other courses seem to be dealing with okay. Your call on any returns, perhaps suggesting the super try using Pulsar Cleats to study if they improve the green condition.
    
    Sorry that I don't have a better answer, but we just are not seeing the problem.
    
    

    
    
    
    
14. Clay Putnam

    

    33 posts
    
    7/29/2015 12:07 PM

    Ronald Conard, CGCS said: The following was in response from an request from "my pro" (there's a flip of the script) to FootJoy to replace the shoes in the picture above. I chuckled when I read his reply.
    
    
    [quote">HI Tom,
    
    I do not know of any other club banning HyperFlex for cleat damage to the greens, and I don't know of any issues with the testing that we've done with the shoes. Almost every shoe made can damage the green if they drag / scuff a foot. I can understand the superintendents concern, but all other courses seem to be dealing with okay. Your call on any returns, perhaps suggesting the super try using Pulsar Cleats to study if they improve the green condition.
    
    Sorry that I don't have a better answer, but we just are not seeing the problem.
    
    

    
    
    The standard response from manufacturers/distributors when confronted with an issue, "I've never seen that before".