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1. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   12/5/2011 10:12 AM

   Hello All,
   We have several bunkers with flashed up faces, that is, sand pushed up to the edge about a foot or more deep. This give the visual appearance they want and keeps the lip from collapsing or getting to tall but we get a lot of complaints about the depth of the sand on these faces(not surprising). Not only is it very soft and dry all the time, but should one step into it (I know they shouldn't...) they will sink past the ankle, but we get a lot of plugged balls as well. Not to mention washouts in the rainy season. The previous way of doing was to simply keep it piled there and deal with the complaints. We are currently working at removing some of the material but do not want a large open lip from the turf to the sand. I am thinking about pulling this material from the edge (18-24" deep in some areas and few feet from the edge) building up the sub-grade floor of the bunker with a heavy easily packed material , install drainage and cover with cloth. Then adding sand to a more acceptable level of 3-5". The problem is the sub-grade floor of the bunkers are flat and do not reflect the flashed up faces...any thoughts
   
   Regards
   Curtis

   
   
   
   
2. Michael MacGillivray

   

   0 posts
   
   12/5/2011 12:12 PM

   Thanks to Twitter I came across Jeff Johnson's bunker edge/bank work at Minikahda, http://minikahdagrounds.blogspot.com/ not sure what bunker style you have but it sounds like re-shaping and re-sodding down to the desired sand edge might be of interest.

   
   
   
   
3. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   12/5/2011 1:12 PM

   Thanks, I will take a look, I should have mentioned that sodding the faces is not really an option they care to pursue at this point. But thanks, and I will check out the link.

   
   
   
   
4. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   12/5/2011 1:12 PM

   The only people that like high faced bunkers are architects and uninformed golfers. They look pretty but are hard to maintain and do not add one ounce of playability to a golf course. One of the stupidest trends in golf. Designers who want these should be forced to maintain them personally for a year. With a sod rolled face the ball will hit the sod and roll into the bunker instead of burying. Seems simple enough to me. Another dumb idea brought to you by T.V. golf. Next they are going to want the greens to roll like Augusta...........
   
   Sounds like they designed them to be flatter Curtis.

   
   
   
   
5. Justin VanLanduit

   

   0 posts
   
   12/5/2011 2:12 PM

   We just recently finished a bunker renovation and I'm hoping solved a few of the similar problems you are describing. We have flash faced bunkers and would experience the washout along with the plugged lies. Plugged lies came from being way too much sand on the faces but it had to be this way as the lips were very deep and the members didn't want to see the lips. So this fall when we did the renovation we removed all the sand from the bunkers and went through packing clay along edges that needed to be shallowed up. We now have a consistent edge depth throughout the bunker let alone the course. We used some clay that had been stockpiled on the property. Wasn't a quick process but I think we accomplished what we needed. When finished the bases looked really good and I think even helped with drainage as the water got moving a little better.

   
   
   
   
6. Michael Vogt

   

   2 posts
   
   12/5/2011 3:12 PM

   Curtis:
   
   A bunker project that seems very similar, I was on this job in 2006. Call or email and I can fill you in on the process. Fazio flash bunkers in this case.
   
   [img">http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/miketurf/Bunker%20Project/Picture015.jpg[/img">
   
   [img">http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/miketurf/Bunker%20Project/Picture012.jpg[/img">
   
   [img">http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/miketurf/Bunker%20Project/Picture028.jpg[/img">
   
   [img">http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/miketurf/Bunker%20Project/Picture029.jpg[/img">

   
   
   
   
7. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   1/4/2012 2:01 PM

   Justin, what you are putting into practice in your picture is exactly what I was thinking about doing! Can you share with me in more detail the process, timeline and expense involved in this? my e-mail is cnickerson@universitypark-fl.com
   
   I wanted to "roll" the face and sod but that is not an option...
   Thanks

   
   
   
   
8. Samuel Leatherberry

   

   0 posts
   
   1/4/2012 3:01 PM

   Curtis,
   
   We are in the process of a bunker renovation that started on Monday. The construction company is doing exactly the same thing as in the pictures that Justin posted. So far, 6 bunkers are done and I think it is going to make a huge difference. Call me if you want to discuss and/or follow the process at http://bearsbestatlanta.blogspot.com. We will be posting pictures every few days.

   
   
   
   
9. Brian Lentz

   

   0 posts
   
   1/4/2012 7:01 PM

   We had the same proble with extremely high faces. The plugged balls and the washouts were the issues we were having. We came up with a fix using two types of bunker cloth. We would shape the face using the existing sand, which was 10 to 12" deep.. We then dug a trench along the bottom of the face to be a stopping point for the cloth. We then put down a thin cloth, one that would not allow water to penetrate into the sand below. Then we added a layer of the thicker cloth which was used to hold a 1" layer of sand. Both cloths were tucked into the trench and backfilled. We then added the thin layer of sand onto the cloth. Now any ball hitting this slope will bounce to the floor of the bunker. It also withstands heavy rains, at most you only need to repLace the 1" layer during extreme rain events. It may not last for ten years but we have some that have performed great for the past four years.
   
   Brian Lentz
   Lakewood Ranch G&CC
   Florida

   
   
   
   
10. Curtis Nickerson

    

    0 posts
    
    1/4/2012 7:01 PM

    Sam,
    Cant wait to follow you progress, I also sent you a message with my contact info.
    Brian,
    Maybe I can come by and take a look at your bunkers in the next week or so? When someone steps off the turf onto the face with the cloth does it "give" or slide under foot?
    
    Thanks
    Curtis

    
    
    
    
11. Wallace Jeffrey V

    
    1/4/2012 9:01 PM

    Keith Lamb said: The only people that like high faced bunkers are architects and uninformed golfers. They look pretty but are hard to maintain and do not add one ounce of playability to a golf course. One of the stupidest trends in golf. Designers who want these should be forced to maintain them personally for a year. With a sod rolled face the ball will hit the sod and roll into the bunker instead of burying. Seems simple enough to me. Another dumb idea brought to you by T.V. golf. Next they are going to want the greens to roll like Augusta...........
    
    Sounds like they designed them to be flatter Curtis.

    
    
    Keith,
    
    You're right. Thankfully, most architects are realistic now regarding maintenance. At least the ones I've been lucky enough to work with. They'll pick a narrow tongue to flash up, so that the golfer can see that there's a bunker there, and keep the remainder of the face.....sod down to sand. I remember sand flashed bunkers back in the early 70's that were 8 feet high. It wasn't my place to change them. I simply took my hand rake with the 10 foot pole and did my job. And walked to the next bunker. Man....I must have been in good shape.

    
    
    
    
12. Nicholas Daak

    

    3 posts
    
    1/9/2012 6:01 PM

    Keith Lamb said: The only people that like high faced bunkers are architects and uninformed golfers. They look pretty but are hard to maintain and do not add one ounce of playability to a golf course. One of the stupidest trends in golf. Designers who want these should be forced to maintain them personally for a year. With a sod rolled face the ball will hit the sod and roll into the bunker instead of burying. Seems simple enough to me. Another dumb idea brought to you by T.V. golf. Next they are going to want the greens to roll like Augusta...........
    
    Sounds like they designed them to be flatter Curtis.

    
    
    I agree, worked on a Rees Jones course. We spent about 200 man hours a week to just to maintain them. Almost every thunderstorm washed them out so we spent another 400 man hours fixing them. Throughout the years our crew changed alot, but if we had an experianced crew we got it done sooner with less complaints.