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Warm Season Turf Seed

21 posts
  1. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    11/19/2011 11:11 PM
    I am consulting on a new project in the Rift Valley, Kenya. There are good soils and lots of fresh water. While tropical, the site is at 7000ft elevation and so has year-round moderate temperatures (60-85°F) and relativlely low humidity. There is a dry season Dec-Feb with no rain at all, normally. I have observed loads of Kikuyu grass and common bermuda thriving everywhere.

    Importing sprigs is going to be an enormous obstacle, due to customs control of vegetative materials and the lethargic pace of bureaucracy in this part of the world. Seed would be infinitely more expedient.

    We're considering Sea Spray paspalum. Does anyone have experience with this variety, especially on greens? Are there currently any improved varieties of bermudagrass that will work everywhere, greens, tees, fairways, roughs?

    Any other suggestions that DO NOT involve importing sprigs?



  2. Wallace Jeffrey V
    Wallace Jeffrey V avatar
    11/20/2011 1:11 AM
    Steve,

    Check out this site.....

    http://www.seasprayinfo.com/

    I know they once had a distributor in North Africa, but not sure if they're still in business. If they are, at least they're on the same continent.

    I've used Sea Spray in the Caribbean....but on greens only. Incredible turf....quick germination and extremely dense.

    Heard of others that have seeded wall to wall, but have no follow up info for you. Sorry.

    If you need some help, a business class ticket would be preferred. If none are available, I'd settle for first class.



  3. Neidhardt John J
    Neidhardt John J avatar
    11/20/2011 10:11 AM
    I can relate to your problem. I was part of a new course construction in Luxor, Egypt. Customs were tight there too. However, since tourism was so vital to the economy and people of influence were part of the project, we did manage to get a single shipment of Middle Georgia bermudagrass sprigs permitted.
    We prepared and planted a 10 acre on site sod farm. 9 acres of Tif 419 and 1 acre of Tifdwarf. We grew it in as course construction started. Eventually as we progressed, we would routinely harvest sprigs from our farm and plant three holes. Then we would grow in those holes while our sod farm recovered. Repeat-Repeat-Repeat-Repeat-Repeat. It was a slow but proven process. We topdressed everything by hand but he climate was very conducive to this long drawn out process. And there were no complete fertilizer's to be purchased. You bought your N seperately from your P and K and made 3 apps. Fun-fun-fun.
    Good luck



  4. Wallace Jeffrey V
    Wallace Jeffrey V avatar
    11/20/2011 3:11 PM
    Good point about Egypt. They cut the red tape for us to fly in enough bushels to plant all 18 holes in Hurghada. But it sounds like Steve isn't having that kind of government help in Kenya, so I understand why he's looking at seed. It also sounds like he has choices other than Paspalum. I didn't.......our well heads had so much crystallized salt built up around them that they looked like monuments after one month.



  5. Keith Pegg
    Keith Pegg avatar
    0 posts
    11/20/2011 4:11 PM
    At 7,000 feet with good water why not go to Zoysia, slow growning, and good grass in many areas. Passpalum is great if you have poor water, I see no other advantage.

    Keith



  6. Neidhardt John J
    Neidhardt John J avatar
    11/21/2011 7:11 AM
    wallacej said: Good point about Egypt. They cut the red tape for us to fly in enough bushels to plant all 18 holes in Hurghada. But it sounds like Steve isn't having that kind of government help in Kenya, so I understand why he's looking at seed. It also sounds like he has choices other than Paspalum. I didn't.......our well heads had so much crystallized salt built up around them that they looked like monuments after one month.



    Were you at Soma Bay ? Its a tough country to business in.



  7. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    11/21/2011 2:11 PM
    keith8 said: At 7,000 feet with good water why not go to Zoysia, slow growing, and good grass in many areas. Paspalum is great if you have poor water, I see no other advantage.

    Keith


    Keith,

    Slow growing is the disadvantage to Zoysia. Are refined varieties propagated from seed? I've only seen Zoysia greens once in my life, in the Philippines, and it wasn't as good as Seashore Paspalum greens I've seen.

    From what I've observed, Paspalum has a better color, stripes up nicely, and is altogether more pleasing aesthetically than Zoysia. Zoysia might be more cold tolerant, but that's not an issue in Kenya. Besides, with Paspalum all we need for weed control is alkaline solution.

    Also, as I said, there is a dry season in Kenya. Sure, there's a water source, but you don't know in these situations what problems might arise - extended power outages for example - and you need to fall back on a drought tolerant species, and Zoysia doesn't compare in that respect. And before you say it, yes, there will be an emergency generator for the pump station, but it won't have the power for more than greens irrigation.

    And guys, this isn't Egypt, OK? We don't have any way to expedite sprigs through customs. Further, neither the architect nor the owner is going to wait for the interminable propagation of a bushel of sprigs to cover 80 acres of turf. Ain't gonna happen. Period. Full stop.

    Finally, Wallace, there's only room here for one consultant, and even I don't get business class tickets. That said, they will need a superintendent next year. Doesn't pay much, bad roads, but all the goat you can eat. On the other hand, it can be interesting. Spectacular terrain, I toured the site this weekend, and saw zebra, giraffe, impala, gazelle, vervet monkeys, guinea fowl, Cape buffalo, and a hippo. Send me a resume if your interested.

    Thanks to everybody for your help.



  8. Smith Kerry L
    Smith Kerry L avatar
    11/21/2011 2:11 PM
    Why not bent for the greens?



  9. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    11/21/2011 3:11 PM
    Kerry38 said: Why not bent for the greens?


    That's a possibility under serious consideration. It should do OK, except that it might be a problem up there to keep the bermuda and Kikuyu and other weeds out of bent.

    Did I mention that Kikuyu grows naturally and wild everywhere around the site? The problem with that is the architect and other people with influence don't like it as a palying surface.



  10. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    11/21/2011 3:11 PM
    Doesn't matter what you plant Steve, it'll be kikuyu within a couple of years. Just have enough labor to keep it out of the greens.



  11. Neidhardt John J
    Neidhardt John J avatar
    11/21/2011 7:11 PM
    okula said:
    keith8 said:

    And guys, this isn't Egypt, OK? We don't have any way to expedite sprigs through customs. Further, neither the architect nor the owner is going to wait for the interminable propagation of a bushel of sprigs to cover 80 acres of turf. Ain't gonna happen. Period. Full stop.



    Sorry. I know it must be stressful. But lighten up Francis. ONLY trying to help from a similar past experience.



  12. Auxier Larry N
    Auxier Larry N avatar
    11/22/2011 6:11 AM
    Riviera Bermuda? It should perform well for fwys, tees, and rough.



  13. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    11/22/2011 9:11 AM
    gusn said: Doesn't matter what you plant Steve, it'll be kikuyu within a couple of years. Just have enough labor to keep it out of the greens.


    Wouldn't you be able to suppress Kikuyu in Paspalum with saline solution?



  14. Wallace Jeffrey V
    Wallace Jeffrey V avatar
    11/22/2011 11:11 PM
    okula said:
    keith8 said: At 7,000 feet with good water why not go to Zoysia, slow growing, and good grass in many areas. Paspalum is great if you have poor water, I see no other advantage.

    Keith


    Keith,

    Slow growing is the disadvantage to Zoysia. Are refined varieties propagated from seed? I've only seen Zoysia greens once in my life, in the Philippines, and it wasn't as good as Seashore Paspalum greens I've seen.

    From what I've observed, Paspalum has a better color, stripes up nicely, and is altogether more pleasing aesthetically than Zoysia. Zoysia might be more cold tolerant, but that's not an issue in Kenya. Besides, with Paspalum all we need for weed control is alkaline solution.

    Also, as I said, there is a dry season in Kenya. Sure, there's a water source, but you don't know in these situations what problems might arise - extended power outages for example - and you need to fall back on a drought tolerant species, and Zoysia doesn't compare in that respect. And before you say it, yes, there will be an emergency generator for the pump station, but it won't have the power for more than greens irrigation.

    And guys, this isn't Egypt, OK? We don't have any way to expedite sprigs through customs. Further, neither the architect nor the owner is going to wait for the interminable propagation of a bushel of sprigs to cover 80 acres of turf. Ain't gonna happen. Period. Full stop.

    Finally, Wallace, there's only room here for one consultant, and even I don't get business class tickets. That said, they will need a superintendent next year. Doesn't pay much, bad roads, but all the goat you can eat. On the other hand, it can be interesting. Spectacular terrain, I toured the site this weekend, and saw zebra, giraffe, impala, gazelle, vervet monkeys, guinea fowl, Cape buffalo, and a hippo. Send me a resume if your interested.

    Thanks to everybody for your help.



    What's a vervet monkey? That makes me nervous....



  15. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    11/23/2011 7:11 AM
    wallacej said:
    okula said:
    keith8 said: At 7,000 feet with good water why not go to Zoysia, slow growing, and good grass in many areas. Paspalum is great if you have poor water, I see no other advantage.

    Keith


    Keith,

    Slow growing is the disadvantage to Zoysia. Are refined varieties propagated from seed? I've only seen Zoysia greens once in my life, in the Philippines, and it wasn't as good as Seashore Paspalum greens I've seen.

    From what I've observed, Paspalum has a better color, stripes up nicely, and is altogether more pleasing aesthetically than Zoysia. Zoysia might be more cold tolerant, but that's not an issue in Kenya. Besides, with Paspalum all we need for weed control is alkaline solution.

    Also, as I said, there is a dry season in Kenya. Sure, there's a water source, but you don't know in these situations what problems might arise - extended power outages for example - and you need to fall back on a drought tolerant species, and Zoysia doesn't compare in that respect. And before you say it, yes, there will be an emergency generator for the pump station, but it won't have the power for more than greens irrigation.

    And guys, this isn't Egypt, OK? We don't have any way to expedite sprigs through customs. Further, neither the architect nor the owner is going to wait for the interminable propagation of a bushel of sprigs to cover 80 acres of turf. Ain't gonna happen. Period. Full stop.

    Finally, Wallace, there's only room here for one consultant, and even I don't get business class tickets. That said, they will need a superintendent next year. Doesn't pay much, bad roads, but all the goat you can eat. On the other hand, it can be interesting. Spectacular terrain, I toured the site this weekend, and saw zebra, giraffe, impala, gazelle, vervet monkeys, guinea fowl, Cape buffalo, and a hippo. Send me a resume if your interested.

    Thanks to everybody for your help.



    What's a vervet monkey? That makes me nervous....

    A not so distant relative?



  16. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/23/2011 7:11 AM
    What would worry me is that if there are...."zebra, giraffe, impala, gazelle, vervet monkeys, guinea fowl, Cape buffalo, and a hippo", then there's probably lions, too.



  17. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    11/23/2011 8:11 AM
    pbowman said: What would worry me is that if there are...."zebra, giraffe, impala, gazelle, vervet monkeys, guinea fowl, Cape buffalo, and a hippo", then there's probably lions, too.



    You just spray the Lions with a little saline solution.....they should shrivel right up.



  18. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/23/2011 9:11 AM
    I forgot to mention that if there are...."zebra, giraffe, impala, gazelle, vervet monkeys, guinea fowl, Cape buffalo, and a hippo", then it sounds like there's probably one horny hippo running around that part of Africa.

    That would scare the crap outta' me.



  19. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    11/23/2011 1:11 PM
    I was told that the lions live a bit further out in the bush and don't come near the site. However, a leopard got the contractor's dog one day.

    More dangerous than the big cats are the buffalo and the hippos. The buffalo especially so if you come across a solitary animal not in a herd. They become very aggressive, and will charge, and they are about the size of a small bus, but faster. Two people were killed on the site in the past year by buffalo

    The hippos will attack if they are on land and you get between them and the water. Most people don't realize how fast a hippo can sprint for about fifty yards. Though they are vegetarians, hippos have been known to pick up a full grown man in their huge mouths and break him into three pieces in one bite, head and shoulders fall to one side, knees and feet to the other, and the hippo spits out the trunk.



  20. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    11/23/2011 2:11 PM
    Hippos are considered by far the most dangerous animal in Africa for exactly the reasons Steve mentions. They look all cute and cuddly but we were told a lot of nasty stories about them They're kinda like a giant pit bull.



  21. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    11/23/2011 6:11 PM
    Although it did fairly weak on the NTEP trials, Princess 77 has had good enough marketing going around that I sported a bucket or two on our softball field this past spring. Good germination and mowed at 2" with a rotary it blends right in with the common out there.



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