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Spending Our Money

23 posts
  1. Michael Vogt
    Michael Vogt avatar
    2 posts
    10/18/2011 9:10 AM
    [size=150">The United States Spending and Debt Problem Explained[/size">
    Here is why Standard and Poor's downgraded the US Credit Rating.

    • U.S. Tax Revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
    • Federal Budget: $3,820,000,000,000
    • New Debt: $1,650,000,000,000
    • National Debt: $14,271,000,000,000
    • Recent Budget Cuts: $38,500,000,000

    Now, let's remove 8 zeros and suppose it's a household budget.

    • Annual Family income: $21,700
    • Money the family spent: $38,200
    • New debt on credit card:$16,500
    • Outstanding balance on credit card: $142,710
    • Total budget cuts:$385

    What say you?



  2. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    10/18/2011 9:10 AM
    Well, it looks like that household is going to have to print about 40,000 in cold hard cash to keep it going.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort



  3. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    10/18/2011 9:10 AM
    With the intent that two of the kids in the household can get paid to do something - doesn't matter what - and help with the family finances, the parents of the household should probably try stealing about $82,000.00 from several of its neighbors to pay their kids.



  4. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/18/2011 1:10 PM
    Unfortunately, you can't compare a household budget to a national budget. The household budget has very little opportunity to increase revenue and very little room to cut spending.

    A nation has the ability to cut spending like say, bringing all our troops home from places like Iraq and Afghanistan A nation also has the ability to increase revenue, like say, make the wealthy pay their fair share instead of relying on those of us in the middle to pay for everything.

    Regards,

    Steve



  5. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    10/18/2011 3:10 PM
    Maybe you're right that you can't compare the actual values, but you can compare the ability to be in a huge amount of debt. If a household gets in debt even remotely close to that of a nation, they will lose their house, cars and so on. Bankrupt. Nations seem to get away with it, all the while awarding huge gov't contracts to friends in business and paying themselves handsomely. I think the comparison is the level of irresponsibility.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort



  6. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/18/2011 3:10 PM
    Comparing a household budget to a nations budget is a fools errand. How many households have to support a military? Lets talk about reality instead of trying to reduce the argument to a ridiculous, meaningless level that is understandable to cretins.



  7. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/18/2011 5:10 PM
    The Federal Budget is NOT like a Household Budget – Here's Why

    By L. Randall Wray, a Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri-Kansas City

    Whenever a demagogue wants to whip up hysteria about federal budget deficits, he or she invariably begins with an analogy to a household's budget: "No household can continually spend more than its income, and neither can the federal government". On the surface that, might appear sensible; dig deeper and it makes no sense at all. A sovereign government bears no obvious resemblance to a household. Let us enumerate some relevant differences.

    1. The US federal government is 221 years old, if we date its birth to the adoption of the Constitution. Arguably, that is about as good a date as we can find, since the Constitution established a common market in the US, forbade states from interfering with interstate trade (for example, through taxation), gave to the federal government the power to levy and collect taxes, and reserved for the federal government the power to create money, to regulate its value, and to fix standards of weight and measurement-from whence our money of account, the dollar, comes. I don't know any head of household with such an apparently indefinitely long lifespan. This might appear irrelevant, but it is not. When you die, your debts and assets need to be assumed and resolved. There is no "day of reckoning", no final piper-paying date for the sovereign government. Nor do I know any household with the power to levy taxes, to give a name to — and issue — the currency we use, and to demand that those taxes are paid in the currency it issues.

    2. With one brief exception, the federal government has been in debt every year since 1776. In January 1835, for the first and only time in U.S. history, the public debt was retired, and a budget surplus was maintained for the next two years in order to accumulate what Treasury Secretary Levi Woodbury called "a fund to meet future deficits." In 1837 the economy collapsed into a deep depression that drove the budget into deficit, and the federal government has been in debt ever since. Since 1776 there have been exactly seven periods of substantial budget surpluses and significant reduction of the debt. From 1817 to 1821 the national debt fell by 29 percent; from 1823 to 1836 it was eliminated (Jackson's efforts); from 1852 to 1857 it fell by 59 percent, from 1867 to 1873 by 27 percent, from 1880 to 1893 by more than 50 percent, and from 1920 to 1930 by about a third. Of course, the last time we ran a budget surplus was during the Clinton years. I do not know any household that has been able to run budget deficits for approximately 190 out of the past 230-odd years, and to accumulate debt virtually nonstop since 1837.

    3. The United States has also experienced six periods of depression. The depressions began in 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893, and 1929. (Do you see any pattern? Take a look at the dates listed above.) With the exception of the Clinton surpluses, every significant reduction of the outstanding debt has been followed by a depression, and every depression has been preceded by significant debt reduction. The Clinton surplus was followed by the Bush recession, a speculative euphoria, and then the collapse in which we now find ourselves. The jury is still out on whether we might manage to work this up to yet another great depression. While we cannot rule out coincidences, seven surpluses followed by six and a half depressions (with some possibility for making it the perfect seven) should raise some eyebrows. And, by the way, our less serious downturns have almost always been preceded by reductions of federal budget deficits. I don't know of any case of a national depression caused by a household budget surplus.

    4. The federal government is the issuer of our currency. Its IOUs are always accepted in payment.
    Government actually spends by crediting bank deposits (and credits the reserves of those banks); if you don't want a bank deposit, government will give you cash; if you don't want cash it will give you a treasury bond. People will work, sell, panhandle, lie, cheat, steal, and even kill to obtain the government's dollars. I wish my IOUs were so desirable. I don't know any household that is able to spend by crediting bank deposits and reserves, or by issuing currency. OK, some counterfeiters try, but they go to jail.

    5. Some claim that if the government continues to run deficits, some day the dollar's value will fall due to inflation; or its value will depreciate relative to foreign currencies. But only a moron would refuse to accept dollars today on the belief that at some unknown date in the hypothetical and distant future their value might be less than today's value. If you have dollars you don't want, please send them to me. Note that even if we accept that budget deficits can lead to currency devaluation, that is another obvious distinguishing characteristic: my household's spending in excess of income won't reduce the purchasing power of the dollar by any measurable amount.

    If you put your mind to it, you will no doubt come up with other differences. I realize that distinguishing between a sovereign government and a household does not put to rest all deficit fears. But since this analogy is invoked so often, I hope that the next time you hear it used you will challenge the speaker to explain exactly why a government's budget is like a household's budget. If the speaker claims that government budget deficits are unsustainable, that government must eventually pay back all that debt, ask him or her why we have managed to avoid retiring debt since 1837-is 173 years long enough to establish a "sustainabl" pattern?



  8. Kim Brock
    Kim Brock avatar
    3 posts
    10/18/2011 8:10 PM
    Steve,
    That is very interesting stuff. However, it doesn't make me feel any more confident in the government spending more than it takes in. Just remember that : the borrower is a slave to the lender.
    Kim



  9. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/19/2011 4:10 AM
    The government has ALWAYS spent more than it takes in. Did you feel more confident when it was being spent by Republicans?


    Regards,

    Steve



  10. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/19/2011 9:10 AM
    Not at all but it seems the "ONE" spending it now is doing so as a drunken sailor might to use another analogy.



  11. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/19/2011 12:10 PM
    So you're saying that it's really about Obama then, not really about the deficit at all?
    Has Obama really spent any more money than Bush, or is it just because you don't like him?


    Regards,

    Steve



  12. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/19/2011 12:10 PM
    huff said:
    Has Obama really spent any more money than Bush..."


    Regards,

    Steve


    Yes, by a bunch.



  13. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/19/2011 2:10 PM
    Bush's budget deficit at inauguration was -2% (a surplus) and ran that up to +8.3%
    Obama took Bush's 8.3% deficit and ran it up to 10.3% in 2010. The budget deficit is now about 8%. So who ran the deficit up higher, Bush or Obama? I guess it depends on who you like and don't like, but as a percentage of the national debt, Bush ran the debt up higher than Obama has to the tune of about 8%. The only differenc is that Obama is in office now, so he gets the blame for it.

    Regards,

    Steve



  14. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    10/19/2011 2:10 PM
    [youtube">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM[/youtube">



  15. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/19/2011 3:10 PM
    Have all the conjecture you like but it has nothing to do with belief or who one likes as a president.


    [url]http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/[/url

    You can repost that video now Keith.



  16. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/19/2011 6:10 PM
    Don't forget that President Bush didn't count the wars on his budget and part of his deficit, while President Obama did add it into his budget, so we are also comparing apples and oranges.

    Hey where have I heard that recently?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  17. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/19/2011 8:10 PM
    BallMark said: Don't forget that President Bush didn't count the wars on his budget and part of his deficit, while President Obama did add it into his budget, so we are also comparing apples and oranges.

    Hey where have I heard that recently?

    Mel


    Mel, take another look at the link I posted. Below is an excerpt:

    "Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post..."



  18. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/19/2011 8:10 PM
    [img">http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll284/scottcgcs/reps2.jpg[/img">

    [img">http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll284/scottcgcs/reps.jpg[/img">



  19. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/20/2011 6:10 AM
    Thanks for posting that graph..............I had been looking everywhere for it.



  20. Trevor Monreal
    Trevor Monreal avatar
    5 posts
    10/20/2011 7:10 AM
    WOW! I Feel better seeing and learning all that.
    Let's just keep doing what we always have done.
    What's the worse that can happen?



  21. Michael Vogt
    Michael Vogt avatar
    2 posts
    10/20/2011 7:10 AM
    Gentlemen:

    To fully understand the situation our nation is in one might want to spend some time reading and understanding a booklet by the name of Modern Money Mechanics.

    http://www.truthsetsusfree.com/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf

    Additionally, if you have not seen this documentary I encourage you to spend the time.

    [youtube">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OXYYw2JD9c[/youtube">

    Republican, Democrat, Independent, Tea Party, Libertarian, whatever your political persuasion, there's plenty of problems to share among all the parties. Until we and our leaders understand some very simplistic rules of governance and economics, I, as many others, feel the world will need to be realigned somehow.

    These old systems of economics and finance are unsustainable. Also take a look at:

    http://www.georgesoros.com/interviews-s ... t_problem/

    Old system, old ideas, new problems!

    Good Luck



  22. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/20/2011 12:10 PM
    I admit I do not Obama but that is beside the point. Many of you for the past 8 years blasted Bush because you did not like him as well. Personalititis aside the problem resides not only in Washington but in Missouri, Florida, California, Texas, Louisiana were we as complainers continue year after year keep sending the same people back to the beltway expecting different results............we're the stupid &^$%@*^&(@*$



  23. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/20/2011 3:10 PM
    McCallum said: I admit I do not Obama but that is beside the point. Many of you for the past 8 years blasted Bush because you did not like him as well. Personalititis aside the problem resides not only in Washington but in Missouri, Florida, California, Texas, Louisiana were we as complainers continue year after year keep sending the same people back to the beltway expecting different results............we're the stupid &^$%@*^&(@*$



    I have to agree with you there David, but I'm only one vote and the sheep here only make a change such as promoting Blunt to Senator from congressman and then replace him with some auctioneer, only because of the R behind their name, but I will make the attempt again this year.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

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