Value of Membership Find a Chapter Join Renew Search

Forum Groups

 

Forums / Talking Turf / Rough Mowing - Please Respond!!!

Rough Mowing - Please Respond!!!

14 posts
  1. Michael Kuhn
    Michael Kuhn avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2014 12:10 PM
    I am hoping you can help me...
    I have had a recurring problem with our members voicing their displeasure with the playability of our roughs. It seems every committee meeting we have in the summer and fall months there is a comment about roughs.
    Here are my issues:
    I have mostly common Bermuda with some small areas of cool-season grasses.
    I mow once a week at 2". This takes 3 crew members 2 days to complete if all goes well. We have one Progressive Pro-Flex and 2 Jake AR-3 trim units. I always try to complete the rough mowing on Monday and Tuesday in case we have weather issues or breakdowns.
    Our golf course is very narrow with lots of shade and tree/root encroachment and rough ground. I have been asked to drop the height of cut but I am hesitant. I dropped from 2 1/2" to 2" this past season and as expected, we incurred more damage to the mowing decks.
    I used to fertilize the roughs with the same frequency as the tees and fairways, equating to a pound of N per month for the 4 month growing season here. I have decreased that to every other month. I have switched to a 33% urea/ 67% PCSCU analysis to prevent any surge growth.
    I have sprayed all the roughs to eradicate a huge green kyllinga population that would grow to 5" height in a week.
    The complaints haven't stopped.
    And this is all on top of having a small budget. I beef up on summer help and revert back to a smaller crew after the summer.
    I plan to widen the fairways as much as I can next year, but that is all dependent on where I have shade/terrain issues.
    Should I decrease fertilization to only 1#N/M per season? Will the Bermuda be able to recover from traffic/divots with that little bit of N? Will the turf be able to compete with weeds? I think not...
    Do any of you have any creative ideas on what I can do to satisfy our membership?
    How many times do you mow rough a week?
    How often do you replace your equipment if you do mow twice a week?
    Any and all responses will be greatly appreciated as I have another committee meeting this Monday :D

    Do any of you have any creative ideas on how I can satisfy the membership on this issue?
    How many times do you mow roughs a week? How large is your staff? How often do you replace your equipment? What is your fertilizer program and what kind of turf do you have along with soil/growing conditions?



  2. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/20/2014 1:10 PM
    The first thing that pops into my head is a question. What part of the week does your membership play golf? Is the majority of golf played on the weekends? If so, the weekend golfers have to deal with the rough at it's highest. Do you see where I am going? Perhaps adjust your mowing days to correspond with your heaviest play days.



  3. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    10/20/2014 1:10 PM
    Why guess whether your Bermuda will thrive under lower fertility? Reduce the fertility and see what happens, if you need more fertilizer then fertilize.

    I dont use any fertilizer on my bermudagrass roughs between march and October

    Take the money you are spending on fertilizer and spend it on a growth regulator. You can regulate Common bermudagrass for about $10-15/acre if you use a generic trinexapac product.

    If you have wear in certain areas only fertilize those areas.

    It would seem to me that common bermuda mowed once per week would be a pretty poor playing surface. How long does it get by the end of the week? 6 inches?



  4. Curtis Nickerson
    Curtis Nickerson avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2014 2:10 PM
    If you cant use Clay's idea of mowing nearer your busiest days, or James idea of regulation, then simply mow more frequently. Mow it non-stop 5 days a week. I would also lower it and rent a bushhog or other mower and beat down the roots below your desired HOC. I cant imagine how deep and mangled that common must be by the end of the weekend.... you have to give them what they want, or someone else will....

    We used to get complaints about our rough when I first took over here (we are 27 holes and around 300 acres) to put an end to the complaints we decided to do this...we run three 4500's and just added a sidewinder and we mow 5 days a week, non-stop. When we finish we just start over. We mow our bermuda at 1.5" and spray primo at 17oz/acre per month nearly year round. Now they complain about the smell of the water in the ball washers and the color of the sand in the bunkers....



  5. John Borcher
    John Borcher avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2014 4:10 PM
    I would say try lowering fertility and switch to mowing with fewer people and just mow 5 days a week. I am on cool season grasses but we do not fertilize the rough and mow with one guy dragging a pro-flex 120 around 5 days a week. Takes a week to get around out 27 holes.



  6. Bryce Gibson
    Bryce Gibson avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2014 7:10 PM
    I worked at a course up north in the past and had the same issues with tough rough. We would mow everything in the first 2 days of the week, then on Thursday one guy would go out with the 5 gang mower and mow 3 loops around all fairways and greens. Knocking the rough down in the high play areas and the job would be done before lunch.
    Also with Bermuda 1.75" or lower HOC is a much more playable cut.



  7. Scott Tullis
    Scott Tullis avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2014 8:10 PM
    We mow all roughs on Monday and Tuesday. On Thursday morning we send out 2 4500's that mow 2 loops around the fairways. We use 2 sidewinders to mow the green slopes on Thursday mornings also. It helps with playability and gives us the look of graduated mowing heights. I now have the same problems that Curtis Nickerson has, too much or to little sand in bunkers and ball washers that need better smelling soap.



  8. Steve Datwyler
    Steve Datwyler avatar
    2 posts
    10/20/2014 8:10 PM
    I had the same problem in the past. I lowered rough from 2-1/2" to 1-3/4", reduced N inputs by 50%, fertilize traffic wear areas with a bit extra (Few golfers play from the traffic areas anyway). I also agree with Bryce. I mow my rough on Monday and Tuesday when the course is closed or we have minimal play. On Friday I mow 1-2 laps around my fairways with our 4700D for a slightly stepped effect. Friday-Sunday are busy days and we have to cater to those players. I have not had a complaint about the rough in 2 years since we began this program.



  9. Jeffrey Whitmire
    Jeffrey Whitmire avatar
    0 posts
    10/20/2014 9:10 PM
    We start our 419 / common rough at 1" then gradually
    raise it to 1.5" at the end of the year using ground driven reel mowers. Fescue under the trees is mown at 3" with rotary mowers.

    We are keeping the program the same for next year except we will be mowing the fescue at 2.25 - 2.5" instead of 3". We mow 40 hours per week during the growing season. This normally enables us to get around the course 1.5 times per week.

    I agree with the others about lowering fertility and using growth regulars. Bermuda rough is tough...make them happy!



  10. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    10/21/2014 7:10 AM
    As a course with montly common fairways and roughs I can see where your issues may be. Like the others your HOC is just too high for the medium to high handicappers. We cut at 1.75" and everytime we have tried to raise the HOC (new board members want to try what they want) above the 1.75" our pace of play goes from just under three hours to upwards of four hour rounds because the older crowd cannot find their balls. about every three to four years I have to prove to a board member that having higher roughs has its downfalls.

    As for your fertility, I have been putting out two applications per year on my fairways and roughs of 1lbN/1000sqft. While I would love another application we just cannot afford it. Two gets us by nicely though. I advise you to keep what you got if you can afford it. It is better to keep the weeds out that way but the flip side of that is how fast your roughs are growing. using a growth regulator would do wonders but it cost me around $22 acre for the generic Primo or about $500 per application for my 23 acres of fairways. I cannot afford another $1,500 a month for the roughs also. I did use it about 10 years back and it did wonders for our roughs so if you can afford this I highly recommend it. If not you will have to shift your cutting dates with you trying to complete the cut by Thursday (I say thurs because it gives you extra guys on Friday to complete the course for the weekend and also gives you an extra day in case of rain). It takes me 2.5 days to cut our roughs but due to high grass complaints I made the decision years back to just keep my guys on the mowers 4-5 days a week. You really do not have to make two complete cuts on your course in a week because by the time you cut 18 holes and start over the last 6 holes are basically cut and not growing too high by the weekend. Once the cool season arrives it will slow down anyway.

    If you can afford it go with the growth regulator because it will save you money on fuel and labor that you have to use when not using it. and it will also save your equipment more wear and tear.
    Move your mowing schedule back by one or two days and watch the weather patterns in case you need to move it back up for a week.
    lower your HOC! the quicker rounds will keep a lot of members from complaining (what is your current round time?)

    Tell your club you are trying out a new schedule to see if it makes things better! it shows you are open to change.

    The bottom line is that we get paid to give our customers a great golfing experience. While it is great to give them what you deem as a pro style golf course it may be too much for their golf game and then the experience is a bad one. Be open to adapting your course to the majority of your membership. sometimes the little things mean alot. While your older membership may not complain about the HOC of your rough its the better golfers that will complain about slow play!

    Good Luck



  11. Mark Van Lienden
    Mark Van Lienden avatar
    14 posts
    10/21/2014 7:10 AM
    We always mowed as much as we needed which could have been once a week or non stop. Our older membership complained less when it was low so most of the time we kept it at 1 1/2 -2.



  12. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    10/21/2014 1:10 PM
    I'll leave the bermuda specific issues to those that manage it. Here we keep the progressive going 5 days a week during the kikuyu growing season. Fridays we do green surrounds and a lap or two around the fwys an additional time. We have a second older unit ready to go the few weeks a year that things get crazy.



  13. Roland McPhearson
    Roland McPhearson avatar
    9 posts
    10/22/2014 6:10 AM
    What type of damage are you getting to the decks that prevents you from going down even further to 1.5" which is where we are?



  14. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    10/22/2014 12:10 PM
    Roland M Mcphearson said: What type of damage are you getting to the decks that prevents you from going down even further to 1.5" which is where we are?


    Get a flail mower and go over your roughs at 1/2" real slowly. That will even out any bumps in the road, and from there it should be smooth sailing



View or change your forums profile here.
 
  • Who We Are
  • What We Do
  • Facility
  • Community
  • Career
  • Value of Membership
  • Find a Chapter
  • Join
  • Renew
  • Login