Granular vs Foliar N on Ultradwarf greens Cancel The title field is required!

1. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/30/2013 9:08 AM

   Currently my nutrient program is based mostly on foliar N. I do use granular sources at aerifications.
   
   I am wondering if there are benefits from using primarily granular sources of N throughout the growing season. I have read Supt's are having success going this route. From what I have read, foliar N even at low rates tends to make the leaf blades more succulent and in turn reduces ball speed. I currently don't have any problems with ball speed and I do like the control I get out of using foliar's but I wanted some other opinions from people with more experience concerning this.

   
   
   
   
2. Brian Lentz

   

   0 posts
   
   8/30/2013 8:08 PM

   For the past 9 years our program consisted of both granular and foliar nutrients. We always tried to balance between the two in order to prevent any major flushes. We backed off a little too much last spring and the greens were not responding as well as we would have liked. In June we decided to switch to the new granular program at the recommendation of our local USGA Aggronomist. So far, our greens have responded well to the program, the day to day consistancy has been great. Although we're still in the starting phase of this program we are very happy with it and plan to continue. We're still making adjustments to the specific blends but we've been able to maintain green speeds with a slightly higher height of cut and rolling. Of course, we also increased the amount and frequency of our Primo applications as well.
   
   Brian Lentz
   Lakewood Ranch G&CC
   Lakewood Ranch, Fl.

   
   
   
   
3. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   8/31/2013 4:08 AM

   It has less to do with the delivery system than with foliar vs. watered in. It doesn't matter how the fertilizer is delivered as long as the N is not allowed to stay on the leaf blade.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   
   
4. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/31/2013 5:08 AM

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: It has less to do with the delivery system than with foliar vs. watered in. It doesn't matter how the fertilizer is delivered as long as the N is not allowed to stay on the leaf blade.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   What I mean by Foliar is leaving the fert on the leaf blade for foliar uptake. I am paying more for true foliar fertilizers to ensure quick uptake and a predictable response.

   
   
   
   
5. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   8/31/2013 10:08 AM

   Dru Clark said:
   
   What I mean by Foliar is leaving the fert on the leaf blade for foliar uptake. I am paying more for true foliar fertilizers to ensure quick uptake and a predictable response.

   
   
   
   Yeah. I know what foliar means. That's what I'm trying to avoid and by doing so, along with some other specific cultural practices, I can increase my mowing height and maintain or increase my ball roll.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   
   
6. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/31/2013 1:08 PM

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

   Dru Clark said:
   
   What I mean by Foliar is leaving the fert on the leaf blade for foliar uptake. I am paying more for true foliar fertilizers to ensure quick uptake and a predictable response.

   
   
   
   Yeah. I know what foliar means. That's what I'm trying to avoid and by doing so, along with some other specific cultural practices, I can increase my mowing height and maintain or increase my ball roll.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   So you do believe less foliar uptake is better. Do you water in most if not all of your liquid apps?

   
   
   
   
7. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/31/2013 1:08 PM

   Brian Lentz said: For the past 9 years our program consisted of both granular and foliar nutrients. We always tried to balance between the two in order to prevent any major flushes. We backed off a little too much last spring and the greens were not responding as well as we would have liked. In June we decided to switch to the new granular program at the recommendation of our local USGA Aggronomist. So far, our greens have responded well to the program, the day to day consistancy has been great. Although we're still in the starting phase of this program we are very happy with it and plan to continue. We're still making adjustments to the specific blends but we've been able to maintain green speeds with a slightly higher height of cut and rolling. Of course, we also increased the amount and frequency of our Primo applications as well.
   
   Brian Lentz
   Lakewood Ranch G&CC
   Lakewood Ranch, Fl.

   
   
   Would you mind emailing me the general info from the program you are referring to?

   
   
   
   
8. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   8/31/2013 5:08 PM

   Dru Clark said:

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

   Dru Clark said:
   
   What I mean by Foliar is leaving the fert on the leaf blade for foliar uptake. I am paying more for true foliar fertilizers to ensure quick uptake and a predictable response.

   
   
   
   Yeah. I know what foliar means. That's what I'm trying to avoid and by doing so, along with some other specific cultural practices, I can increase my mowing height and maintain or increase my ball roll.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   So you do believe less foliar uptake is better. Do you water in most if not all of your liquid apps?

   
   
   
   I water in all fertilizer applications that contain nitrogen wether they be liquid or granular.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   
   
9. Brian Lentz

   

   0 posts
   
   8/31/2013 7:08 PM

   Our program consists of the following:
   
   Week one: 13-0-26 Andersons 1/3 lb N
   Week two: 0-0-25 Andersons 2/3 lb K
   Week three 9-3-18 Lesco 1/3 to 1/4 lb N
   Week four Calcium, Silical 120-150 lbs / A
   
   We lightly verticut and topdress every 7 to 14 days.
   Primo application every 7 days 4oz/A with minors.
   
   Brian Lentz
   Lakewood Ranch G&CC

   
   
   
   
10. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    9/1/2013 5:09 AM

    Brian Lentz said: Our program consists of the following:
    
    Week one: 13-0-26 Andersons 1/3 lb N
    Week two: 0-0-25 Andersons 2/3 lb K
    Week three 9-3-18 Lesco 1/3 to 1/4 lb N
    Week four Calcium, Silical 120-150 lbs / A
    
    We lightly verticut and topdress every 7 to 14 days.
    Primo application every 7 days 4oz/A with minors.
    
    Brian Lentz
    Lakewood Ranch G&CC

    
    
    Good deal. Thank you!

    
    
    
    
11. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    9/1/2013 5:09 AM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Dru Clark said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Dru Clark said:
    
    What I mean by Foliar is leaving the fert on the leaf blade for foliar uptake. I am paying more for true foliar fertilizers to ensure quick uptake and a predictable response.

    
    
    
    Yeah. I know what foliar means. That's what I'm trying to avoid and by doing so, along with some other specific cultural practices, I can increase my mowing height and maintain or increase my ball roll.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    So you do believe less foliar uptake is better. Do you water in most if not all of your liquid apps?

    
    
    
    I water in all fertilizer applications that contain nitrogen wether they be liquid or granular.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    Cool, thanks Steve.

    
    
    
    
12. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/1/2013 3:09 PM

    I did the granular thing for several years and it worked very well, the only thing I sprayed was Primo and pesticides but I got tired of mowing without buckets all the time. For the past year I have been using Redox. After doing the math and saving 10,000 bucks a year just on greens, it has worked out very well for me. I spray my greens twice a week. On Wednesday, I spray nitrogen, potassium and any pesticide that need to be watered in and I wash that all in. On Fridays, I spray Redox and primo and leave it on the leaf blade until that night. Along with some regular cultural practices, I am currently mowing at .175 and rolling around 10.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
13. Aaron Ohloff

    

    0 posts
    
    9/1/2013 3:09 PM

    Steve,
    
    Do you feel you've gotten the same results with your 2x/wk spray applications as you did with the granular program? Are you spraying a quick release N or are you using a stabilized/slow-release liquid nitrogen product?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Aaron
    Gateway G&CC
    Fort Myers, FL

    
    
    
    
14. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/1/2013 6:09 PM

    Aaron Ohloff said: Steve,
    
    Do you feel you've gotten the same results with your 2x/wk spray applications as you did with the granular program? Are you spraying a quick release N or are you using a stabilized/slow-release liquid nitrogen product?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Aaron
    Gateway G&CC
    Fort Myers, FL

    
    
    I think I get a better product. The granular route was using very low N and the greens were always kind of yellow which doesn't bother me, but my members want to see green grass and lots of it.
    
    With regards to the question about N sources....it depends. This time of year when I'm constantly healing up from aerification or heavy verticutting I use a combination of Uflexx and ammonium sulfate which equals .25 lbs of N a week ....broken down, it's .17lbs of slow release and .08lbs of quick release.
    
    I will start backing that down this week and leave out the ammonium sulfate unless I need a quick blast and use straight Uflexx at .10lbs per week.
    
    Once it cools off, I will go to a 20.0.0 liquid form which is a mixture of Urea and Magnesium nitrate at 1 gal / ac . I am targeting 6 lbs of N total for the year, the vast majority of which is put down in the summer.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
15. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    9/2/2013 6:09 AM

    Steve, are you buying those in liquid form or converting the granular in your tank?
    
    I have always been told that Superintendents add a little ammonia sulfate (nitrate) to their tanks when spraying to give a little bump but have never tried it myself. If mixed in the tank, how would you know how much to use to get the desired amount. I am sure I could research this info and bat my brain around to finally get the sums but I would also second guess myself since I havew never tried it before.

    
    
    
    
16. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    9/2/2013 11:09 AM

    James Smith said: Steve, are you buying those in liquid form or converting the granular in your tank?
    
    I have always been told that Superintendents add a little ammonia sulfate (nitrate) to their tanks when spraying to give a little bump but have never tried it myself. If mixed in the tank, how would you know how much to use to get the desired amount. I am sure I could research this info and bat my brain around to finally get the sums but I would also second guess myself since I havew never tried it before.

    
    
    Ammonium sulfate is 21-0-0 so start out with a light shot at .1lbs N and see how the plants respond and go from there. That's what I did. .1lbsN/m is .47lbs prod/m.

    
    
    
    
17. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/2/2013 12:09 PM

    The Uflexx and ammonium sulfate are solvable s. Uflexx is 46-0-0 and Ammonium Sulfate is 21-0-0. You just measure out how much nitrogen you want and melt it into the tank.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
18. Tony Feheregyhazi

    

    7 posts
    
    9/2/2013 6:09 PM

    Hey guys you can also purchase ammonium sulphate in a ready to use liquid form. Not as cheap but still relatively cheap if you like to pour and not pre-mix any thing. I get unbelievable color out of it and plants seem like it.
    
    Tony Feheregyhazi
    Bridges Golf Course

    
    
    
    
19. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/2/2013 6:09 PM

    You don't really need to pre mix anything. You just melt it into the tank using the screen.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
20. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    9/3/2013 5:09 AM

    Do you guys water it in or leave it on the leaf blade until your next irrigation schedule?

    
    
    
    
21. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    9/3/2013 6:09 AM

    Dru Clark said:

    James Smith said: Steve, are you buying those in liquid form or converting the granular in your tank?
    
    I have always been told that Superintendents add a little ammonia sulfate (nitrate) to their tanks when spraying to give a little bump but have never tried it myself. If mixed in the tank, how would you know how much to use to get the desired amount. I am sure I could research this info and bat my brain around to finally get the sums but I would also second guess myself since I havew never tried it before.

    
    
    Ammonium sulfate is 21-0-0 so start out with a light shot at .1lbs N and see how the plants respond and go from there. That's what I did. .1lbsN/m is .47lbs prod/m.

    
    
    What is the conversion for the ft to m that you are using. I am use to doing everything in 1000sq ft measurements. thanks in advance

    
    
    
    
22. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    9/3/2013 10:09 AM

    /M means Per 1000ft2