Greens snow removal Cancel The title field is required!

1. Douglas Eggert

   

   1 posts
   
   2/26/2014 12:02 PM

   At a municipal club, and the discussion gotten started about possible removal of snow on the greens next season for plant health.
   
   So after doing some research on the internet and YouTube, snow blowing seems to the route to go next year.
   
   I've narrowed down my choice to a tractor mounted 3 pt model snow blower. I have 3.5 acres of putting surfaces, and I can't see the reality of removal with 2 walk behind units. I don't have the need for an out front rotary to buy a blower for. Parks Dept currently plows my lot at the clubhouse, my department doesn't have a 4 wheel drive truck either.
   
   Can you folks give me some insight on what you are doing at your particular clubs. At this point, the snow is now ice, and I'll be dealing with those ramifications when it arises.
   
   Not to change subjects, I've not core sampled, but plan to do so next week. The only experience to base by situation is winter 99-00, when it snowed 16" in late December and never snowed again all year. That turned into crusty ice and had a cold rain on it in February. I had winterkill and gray snowmold beyond expectations and finally recovered in June.
   
   Thanks.
   
   Thanks.

   
   
   
   
2. Rosenthal Gregg

   
   2/26/2014 5:02 PM

   Douglas, I have never worried too much about snow on the green with good application of snow mold fungicide in the late fall. However if ice develops and one wants to do something to help to melt some holes in it for air to circulate. I often used dark colored organic fertilizers with a bag per green rate when in Maryland at the time. This would get holes to form down into the ice as the sun came out and air to circulate into the green. This allowed no issues to make the turf go down from lack of air which is the major problem from ice cover for long periods if the ground is not very frozen prior. GreggR

   
   
   
   
3. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   2/27/2014 7:02 AM

   Doug,
   
   This is the first year we have considered removing snow, however, we are not removing snow from the greens. We are making a single pass, with a two stage snow blower, at the low points of the greens (a smiley face) then a 20' or so perpendicular pass at the low point of the smiley face to allow the water to shed off the green when the snow and ice melts.
   
   We are taking this approach based off of two factors; 1, the ice on our greens appears to be porous and 2, we pulled a core plug and the grass on the plug is doing well.
   
   We thought about removing the snow from all the greens for fear of ice damage; ice has been on the greens since about Christmas. We decided against it based off of the above and we could actually be hurting ourselves by removing the snow. Remove snow, begin to melt the ice, get a hard freeze, once porous ice is now solid ice, screwed. Now, I would be speaking a different tune if the ice was already solid and the core plug began to decay.
   
   If you really want to remove snow without the purchase of an out-front unit with a snow blower then a consideration may be a couple commercial grade walk behind units. I know you said "...I can't see the reality of removal with 2 walk behind units.", but you can get two 36" commercial grade/2 or 3-stage snow blower for somewhere between $3,000 to $4,000 total. I would think the two bigger units, particularly at that price, could handle the snow in a reasonable amount of time.
   
   That all said, we do have a couple exposed greens that are scorched from the extreme cold and high winds. I wish there was snow on those greens. I'm betting the difference between the exposed greens and the snow/ice covered greens is going to be dramatic coming out of winter.

   
   
   
   
4. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   2/27/2014 8:02 AM

   I don't grow grass in snow, but from what I've learned form other Superintendents over the years is that snow acts as insulation and keeps the greens warmer than if they were exposed. Ice is a different concern.

   
   
   
   
5. Craig Moore

   

   0 posts
   
   2/27/2014 8:02 AM

   http://www.usga.org/course_care/regiona ... entral/Don't-Over-React-–-Time-To-Consider-All-Options---February-2014/
   
   Read the above
   
   Snow cover is good, ice is not so good. It will kill your turf if left in place for extended periods of time (2-plus months) or during freeze thaw cycles in the spring. If the soil is frozen (deep frost) the duration of ice cover before kill is longer than if the soil is not frozen below (minimal frost depth). Many factors in play here including turf type. Wait as long as you can to remove the snow to reduce the risk of cold temperature exposure and kill.
   
   Dealing with this yearly up here in the winter tundra of Mqt. Mi. I am obsessed with the dynamics of the subject and I learn something new by observation every year.

   
   
   
   
6. Jon Gansen

   

   1 posts
   
   2/27/2014 8:02 AM

   Doug In the late 80s early 90s we had ice damage a number of winters in a row. In 92 we blew and applied milorganite on 4 of the worst greens, left the 4th half blown.. With us that year it appeared that we made a big mistake by uncovering and messing with those greens. Half of the 8 green showed a clear line from the blown and not blown. Still had damage to that half but not near the death. It didnt work for us but conditions vary from area to area.

   
   
   
   
7. Barry Provo

   

   0 posts
   
   2/27/2014 10:02 AM

   16 below zero this morning in Mpls, close to the same tonight, thank god we have good snow cover. I cannot think of any reason to remove snow in this region unless you are very worried about Ice, even then I would wait till the forecast leveled out, maybe late March. In my opinion removing snow and improving plant health don't belong in the same sentence unless your goal is to set back your Poa to encourage your Bent.

   
   
   
   
8. Kyle Rausch

   

   0 posts
   
   2/27/2014 10:02 AM

   From my experience the biggest factor to take into consideration is if the ground was frozen before the snow and ice accumulated on it. If it was, leave the snow/ice. If it wasn't take a core first to see how it responds before doing anything. Here in South Dakota our biggest problem is wind desiccation. We actually spend a lot of time going around covering the greens with snow to offer them some protection. I would take a snow/ice covered green over a bare windswept one any day. Every situation is different though so I would make sure to take a core before doing anything

   
   
   
   
9. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   2/27/2014 11:02 AM

   Some may remember my epic destruction of a ProCore 660 from several years back. What did I learn? I think in hind site it was a mistake. I saw too many live areas where the ice stayed and too many dead areas where there was a pattern from the ice removal.
   My new motto is to stay warm indoors and don't fuck with Mother Nature

   
   
   
   
10. Hardy Andrew

    
    2/27/2014 12:02 PM

    I cleared in 2010, and wound up doing more bad than good. In fact, the greens I couldn't access because of snow depths came out perfect. Removing that snow layer opens your turf up to more issues. Like Red, I will be staying inside and breaking down and servicing ballwashers.

    
    
    
    
11. Douglas Eggert

    

    1 posts
    
    2/27/2014 12:02 PM

    I'm personally concerned about a few low areas that we have forming somewhat clear ice. I really haven't had the time to get out and really look around. Dealing with some off course issues.
    
    Most of the snow we now have has turned into this solid crusty frozen icy crunchy stuff. I'm in the group of leaving snow. I don't like the idea of removing it, but most my Penncross greens, in the last few seasons have been migrating to Poa, and some of those are my trouble children also, pocketed areas, no late afternoon sun...
    
    I'm coming up to day 70 something with snow cover, never had snow cover this long in the past, so little uncharted territory here. But, I'm also glad I didn't remove snow in the last few cold blasts we've endured. Right now the frost in the ground is near the 36" mark, ice and snow aren't going away anytime soon.
    
    At this point I'm not going to be removing any ice, I don't feel the returns justify the damages or expense of doing this. Besides, the mechanic and I like the Procore and Aercore just the way they are.
    
    Hoping for a slow thaw also, then I won't have to worry about run off flooding.

    
    
    
    
12. Kyle Fick

    

    4 posts
    
    2/28/2014 9:02 AM

    I'm in an odd region in Western ND where we get some mid winter thaws. Typically spring isn't far behind. Let's not consider the rarity of this winter for this region, it contradicts every statement to follow.
    
    When thinking of the snow that can and will accumulate and persist until the thaw begins, I let as much be on there as possible. But, when the active melt begins, I feel its important to be Johnny on the spot with a blower to get that snow off, rather than have it melt, follow through the drifting, and create that ice layer that may or may not form from the warmth. That freeze thaw cycle can lead to a great deal of crown hydration and damage that way, under the actively melting snow.
    
    I also feel its an important step for the spring recovery as well. For anyone that uses covers, and depending on when snow cover can accumulate, the "shock" of the plant from fluctuating spring temps can be just as harsh as leaving them open once that cover is removed. I'd be curious to what your temps are under all that snow at the crown level. Chances are good, it's not as cold as you'd think! And being that so, hasn't dried out much over winter anyhow, or possibly isn't frozen as hard as one might thing. Just a few thoughts.