Decoder Systems Cancel The title field is required!

1. Aaron Disselkamp

   

   0 posts
   
   8/26/2011 9:08 AM

   I am looking at control options for a new irrigation system, Satellite vs. Decoder. The decoder side is where I need some input, both good and bad. If you have the current Toro decoder system or the new Rainbird IC system I would like to hear about your experiences with those but any advice or input on a decoder system would be appreciated.
   
   Thanks,
   
   Aaron Disselkamp, CGCS
   Standard Country Club
   Louisville, KY

   
   
   
   
2. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   8/26/2011 10:08 AM

   Aaron,
   
   I was at two courses that installed Rain Bird decoder systems, on was a new course in 97-98 and the other was an irrigation renovation in 99. What I really liked about the decoders where they were I believe easy to install for the guys installing, not a lot of wire. They could pull the wire in at the same time as the pipe, (in northern Indiana) so this sped the installation. I thought it was fairly easy to track problems, of course you might want to ask a couple of the kids working for me when we got down to the problem hole after they dug up five heads, but part of that was not being aware of a spliced area. (I would suggest on the as built mark the splice boxes and which direction the wires go, maybe label the wires in the splice box as well.) The only scary part and I hadn't dealt with it as I wasn't at those courses long enough, was if the central or mim when down. Then the only way to water is to key heads on. I have had issues at my current course when we get a lighting strike and it knocks out the mim, even though Rain Bird will get me up and running on the next day, I can run off the satellites if I need to. As for the current decoder systems I am not familiar with them.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
3. Delay David A

   
   8/26/2011 1:08 PM

   Just finished having the Rainbird ICS installed,,so far so good,,what great control,,and easy to add,,just need to understand the flow tree for programming,,also have a good installer,for grounding and splices!!! Dave Delay 530-259-4549

   
   
   
   
4. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   8/26/2011 2:08 PM

   Dave is definitely correct on installer. Had those two systems in Indiana installed by two different contractors following the design of the same person. They couldn't have been installed more different.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
5. Matt Hewitt_2

   

   0 posts
   
   8/28/2011 1:08 PM

   Aaron,
   
   I have a Rainbird decoder system in NE Ohio. Make sure you have a professional company install your system. My system was installed in house by a bunch of beer drinking construction workers. It is a great system when running, but it is a nightmare when a thunderstorm rolls through. When I got here, there were no ground rods, surge protector or lightning protection. One time lightning hit my office and fried the computer and every control box on the wall. The Rainbird help center people in Phoenix are a great help. As I am digging up dead decoders, I am putting the decoders in small irrigation boxes, so next time it will be easier to track down the problems. The only advantage in a decoders system is the installation cost.
   
   Matt

   
   
   
   
6. Dennis Cook

   

   1 posts
   
   8/30/2011 6:08 AM

   I have a RainBird decoder system that was installed in 2008. It is very important for the installer to make good connections and limit the number of splices in the field. Other than that, this system is incredible. The members love having no pedestals on the course. I do everything from my radio when on the course and after having both types of systems I just cant imagine ever going back to satellites. My satellites gave me way more problems than this very simple system. The amount of wire was reduce by almost 80 percent. This allowed us to put more heads on the course than the satellite system. The central does everything, it is the only thing I have to worry about. I reboot the computer once a week and it is a dedicated computer for the irrigation only. My satellite system would get two to three fatal lightning strikes per year that would require major trouble shooting. My decoder system has so many grounding plates and rods that a lightning strike will generally only affect four heads before it hits another plate and dumps to ground. I have yet to replace a single solenoid or decoder due to lightning. I did have my radio tower get hit by a strike and the pipe bomb protection that was built into the central control system protected my LDI's and central.
   
   The key is design. We were able to design extensive lightning protection into the system and get more heads because we werent spending that money on wire and satellites. Trouble shooting, although we have not had to do any, is very easy. Much easier than a satellite system once you understand the concept. Because you have a continuous wire path, you either have voltage or you dont. You dont have to worry about tracing a common wire that goes to six different heads. You check your wire at the switch boxes in the ground and you can narrow the problem down to a very small area within minutes. Then you focus on that area with your wire tracker and fix it.
   
   The other thing I like about the decoder system is the ability to expand it. If you want to stick a head out in the rough, you can tap into the system at the closest point. Tap into the wire at that same point, stick a decoder and head on it and then all you have to do is add the decoder address into your central. I dont have to find the pipe, then run a station and common wire all the way back to the satellite. I just can't imagine going back to the headaches of satellites.

   
   
   
   
7. Murray Ian W

   
   8/30/2011 8:08 PM

   Decoder is by far the best way to go. IF, the companies start making "smart tools" that are fool proof and are better than having to be a gymnast with your fingers on grease laden once spliced wires during troubleshooting. as far as The wall panels are concerned, if they go, so goes the leg, unless you have an "extra to plug in" or create a jumper wire from box to box, you will be overnighting with a key and a flashlight. Chances are, you took a bad hit if the box behind the big fuses are down, so your itty bitty components must be toast, and there will be plenty of hunting or digging to do. This could all be made easier with a few electrical doo dads built in china. This being said, I may never go with a decoder system again unless I have a payroll to support an intelligent human willing to work for a period of time, as problems are learning experience and only occur on thursday or friday nights.
   
   I do have a price for my thoughts, and would always be willing to share them with Toro or Rainbird. I would need to sit with their difference makers, and come up with a way to get satellite boxes obsolete. I believe it is entirely possible to do already. It is amazing to think what technology is available out there that doesn't translate fully to our profession. I mean, shouldn't we all have a dialer from our pump station or a mobile device to text you the pump cut off, or must you log in remotely ten times a night worrying? What about simple power outages? Surges? We have over 100K in pump stations with out having something a simple cell phone could accomplish nowadays.
   
   Decoders are close to taking over, but no surge protection rods will prevent damage when lightening is, well...lightening. Thus, the chase after the fact has to be more efficient.
   
   My two cents-Ian

   
   
   
   
8. Wilson Paul J

   
   5/13/2013 7:05 AM

   how often is everybody replacing solonoids? I seem to be going through a lot. just curious how many a year everbody is going through
   thanks Willy

   
   
   
   
9. Tim Campbell

   

   0 posts
   
   5/13/2013 1:05 PM

   I have a Toro GDC installed in 2009 with 700 sprinkler heads. I have replaced about 20 solenoids total, since it was installed.
   
   Tim

   
   
   
   
10. Wilson Paul J

    
    5/13/2013 1:05 PM

    thanks Fred! I have a rainbird decoder system. any body else??

    
    
    
    
11. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    5/13/2013 2:05 PM

    Quick question, are your solenoids, the green things on the side of the valve-in-heads? I used to call them solenoids on Toro's but I call them coils on our Rain Bird heads.
    
    When I had two decoder systems, I don't think I replaced a coil the first year I was at a grow-in, if I did, it was most likely due to a nick in the wires, (surprising when I learned how they didn't install wire runs correctly.) At the other golf course, I might have replaced 6 to 10 the 3 years I was at that course. I would say most of those were from nicked wires and the rest from lighting. This was in 1998 through 2002 ( I only mention because things might have changed since then).
    
    Actual decoders, I might have replaced a handful at both facilities in the approximately 4 years I dealt with them.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
12. Wilson Paul J

    
    5/14/2013 5:05 AM

    Yup Melvin I am talking about the green things on the side of the heads. My course had 3 different installers do the irrigation system. (course was foreclosed on during construction?. I think they did a crappy install. I only have to replace a few decoders a year but solonoids i bet I go through 30 a year easy. I already replaced 10 this year and have atleast 10 more to do plus fix some broken wires.
    Willy

    
    
    
    
13. Callum Haughn

    

    0 posts
    
    5/14/2013 6:05 AM

    I'm also running a Rainbird decoder system and I would say that 20 a year sounds about right. Rainbird had trouble with solenoids when my current facility was built roughly 10 years ago and apparently 3 courses throughout North America got a "bad batch" of solenoids, mine being one of them. They went good and sent us a couple hundred roughly 2 years ago. We are similar to you in that multiple companies and people have worked on the installation and maintenance of the system over the years, leaving quite a mess behind.
    
    Callum Haughn
    Mill Ridge Golf Course
    Chester, NS, Canada

    
    
    
    
14. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    5/14/2013 7:05 AM

    I will say we had a different installer on the second job where decoders were used, what a difference. The first installer wasn't so bad with piping, but it was the communication wiring, he was saving money on that and run it down one of the laterals and then they would trench across the fairway to hook up the second head, at least I knew all my decoders were on the same side of the fairway, but made it hard to adjust station times on slopes. The first contractor saved money on the communication wire and probably spent it on his labor?
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
15. Wilson Paul J

    
    5/14/2013 7:05 AM

    at my previous course I had a old toro system and eventually put in a new toro system. I can honestly say i had now where near the problems I have now. as far as ease of maintenance and problems I think toro beats rainbird hands down.

    
    
    
    
16. Gerald Beierschmitt

    

    0 posts
    
    5/17/2013 3:05 AM

    I've got a 11 year old rainbird cirrus decoder system and might replace 5-10 solenoids a year max. 30 seems way too high.

    
    
    
    
17. Wilson Paul J

    
    5/21/2013 5:05 AM

    Thanks guys. Looks like I will just have to live with it for now. luckily I have a good irrigation tech and lots of solonoids !
    willy

    
    
    
    
18. Anthony Robertson

    

    1 posts
    
    5/5/2015 11:05 AM

    We have a rain bird decoder system that was installed in 1998. We replace at least 25 decoders a year. For anyone that has a decoder system how many decoders do you replace annually? It seems like if someone farts too loud on the course we lose a decoder.
    
    Bloomington, Indiana

    
    
    
    
19. Keith Pegg

    

    0 posts
    
    5/5/2015 6:05 PM

    Not sure if this will help but, I knew Superintendent some years back that said he covered every Decoder with a sealed plactic bag and had no more problems. Just an idea? Also a good surge protector on the control system is a good idea,
    Good Luck.
    Keith

    
    
    
    
20. Harlyn Goldman

    

    0 posts
    
    5/6/2015 5:05 AM

    Check and TEST all grounding/surge protection.

    
    
    
    
21. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    5/6/2015 6:05 AM

    We have a Hunter decoder system on some of our roadways. Other than the freak lightning storm, we might lose 1-2 a year. But, I do know that each box that has the decoders in them by the valves has both a ground rod and plate attached to them.

    
    
    
    
22. Tyler Broderick

    

    2 posts
    
    5/6/2015 8:05 AM

    I just got a new Toro decoder system. We are on pace to replace about 12-15 annually

    
    
    
    
23. John Faber

    

    0 posts
    
    5/6/2015 9:05 AM

    I would check all the grounding and make sure it is adequate. I worked at a course where we installed a new Rainbird decoder system ourselves and may have even gone overboard with the grounding. The course was prone to thunder/lightning storms and in my 4 years there after installing we never replaced a single decoder.

    
    
    
    
24. Kyle Fick

    

    4 posts
    
    5/6/2015 11:05 AM

    Rainbird decoder system that was installed in 2002-2003 out here. I'd say we lose 5 annually tops. Most I assume are due to very poor grounding from installation procedures. Otherwise, I love it. Easy enough to work on, add to, and take out of use. Paired with a good locator and fault finder, a breeze.

    
    
    
    
25. Anthony Robertson

    

    1 posts
    
    5/7/2015 7:05 PM

    Thank you all. I am going to start installing a surge protector and some grounding at the splices on my habitual offender holes and see if it helps.

    
    
    
    
26. Mahaffey Donald

    
    5/14/2015 8:05 PM

    Like everyone else, I'd suggest you check your grounding and try to get it under 20 ohms, lower the better. If you are not getting a low enough reading, add 10 feet of 6G copper wire and install another ground rod/plate. You'll find you can get some pretty good readings with this method. Also make sure all terminal ends of wire paths have a grounding assembly.
    My other recommendation is to go to the Paige electric website, look up their Decoder Fused Device, and install one at every major branch of the trunk line. Your irrigation supplier can get them for you or you can order direct online. They are basically an iso valve for wire paths, and allow you to check voltage without taking apart any connectors.
    If you have a bad decoder taking down a leg, you can isolate it until it is replaced.
    The fuses will also give some extra lightning protection.
    
    Don

    
    
    
    
27. Flanagan Darren C

    
    5/15/2015 1:05 AM

    We have a Toro decoder system here in Maui. We ended up changing all of the heads out to Infinity, we have had approx 13 failures over the past 6 weeks. The engineering department at Riverside has said there is moisture getting into the decoders on some of the failures. So only time will tell if things will settle down, has not been the greatest experience so far but Toro are backing up the product and doing their best considering the situation.
    
    If I had to make a decision today I would stick to controllers, that decision may change down the road.....
    
    All the best mate
    
    
    Darren

    
    
    
    
28. Chase Best

    

    0 posts
    
    8/4/2015 10:08 PM

    We have a Hunter decoder system. I lose 5-10 of the old decoders per year, installed in 98. We have no issues with the new decoders as they have copper ground rods on them. Biggest concern are lightning storms and flooded irrigation boxes in our floodplain.
    
    Chase Best
    Old Capital Golf Club
    Corydon, In

    
    
    
    
29. Steven Tierney

    

    0 posts
    
    8/5/2015 8:08 AM

    Decoders
    Our system was installed 97/98 have to this point replaced 10 in total had no problems,Surge protectors have done their job as well as good grounding these are checked annually and replaced every 3/4 years all in all been happy
    Sorry its a Rain Bird System running on a Nimbus II controller, Only used for 6 months of year 4 months snow cover here in Switzerland
    
    Steven Tierney MG
    Golfpark Nuolen