How many start times and irrigation programs? Cancel The title field is required!

1. Michael Rogers

   

   2 posts
   
   9/1/2015 8:09 AM

   Hi, We have 4 pump houses and 400 feet of elevation change. We formerly ran one start time and the 320 stations for rough and fairway in one program along with one program for greens, tees, driving range, club house , and roadways.
   
   This year I put my foot down after constant pressure problems last year and made about 25 start times and about 30 programs to segment areas, join together others, and not have any of the pump houses over their capacity nor any stations fighting for water in fairways that have 2 or three satellites . It has worked extremely well.
   
   My crew foreman thinks I should return it as before that all other courses just use 1 start time and one program for fairways and roughs. I checked with a few supers in the area that all have only 1 pump house and they use several start times.
   
   How many start times and programs do you run?
   
   Thanks Michael
   
   Marbella Golf Country Club

   
   
   
   
2. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   9/1/2015 8:09 AM

   You are doing it correctly. I run off a central control, Nimbus II, and have separate programs for Greens, Tees, Perimeters, PG, CG, DR, Each Fwy, etc.... probably 30 different programs with staggered start times. The central controls GPM when starting up to ramp up pressure and controls everything to maintain even pressure throughout the course. If you are running off satellites you would definitely want to mimic this. At the last course I was at we ran off satellites and our Irrigation Foreman used graph paper to program everything in order to mimic what my central does.

   
   
   
   
3. Keith Fellenstein

   

   0 posts
   
   9/1/2015 11:09 AM

   Keith Lamb said: You are doing it correctly. I run off a central control, Nimbus II, and have separate programs for Greens, Tees, Perimeters, PG, CG, DR, Each Fwy, etc.... probably 30 different programs with staggered start times. The central controls GPM when starting up to ramp up pressure and controls everything to maintain even pressure throughout the course. If you are running off satellites you would definitely want to mimic this. At the last course I was at we ran off satellites and our Irrigation Foreman used graph paper to program everything in order to mimic what my central does.

   
   
   Ditto, easily 40-50 programs for 36 holes, single pump station and usually in the neighborhood of 10-15 start times or more ...long ago I was the irrigation tech at another course that set up the watering using satellites and attempted to mimic the flo managers the computer run centrals do now, even more critical and challenging as the system had several dead ends.

   
   
   
   
4. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   9/1/2015 3:09 PM

   I have Stratus II and have about 10 - 12 programs. I only have 1 or 2 start times for each program.
   
   I do not have any secondary start times to break down start time per hole.
   
   As I was told, the best way depending on area of the course, was to pick your fairway start time, then make your tee start time 5 to 15 minutes later, so if pump capacity isn't reached and the computer can turn on a head it will. Greens would be started maybe 15 minutes after that. Although with my greens I will watch the dry run and when capacity starts to lower as controllers finish their full cycle, is when I start my perimeter and green programs. The person who designed and programed my two decoder systems in Indiana taught me that,
   
   I do have a cycle and soak set up, 10 minutes on, 30 minutes soak. That is why I will delay my greens program start.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
5. Michael Rogers

   

   2 posts
   
   9/2/2015 4:09 AM

   Thanks for replies. I forgot to mention I am on Sitepro with no information exchange between central computer and main pump house. The main pump house 13 goes directly to two pump houses on holes 1 and 7 and then the 1 pump house goes up mountain to 2 pump house.
   
   We have 24 satellites for 18 holes.
   
   Thanks again Michael
   
   Marbella Golf Country Club

   
   
   
   
6. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   9/2/2015 7:09 AM

   Michael,
   
   You are right.
   
   My North course is stand-alone Toro Network LTC+. We stagger start times a few minutes for the first run, second run etc....we have up to 12 programs for that course, and none have the same start time. This keeps the pump from drastically ramping up and spiking pressure to answer demand of everything coming on at once, then plateauing off once demand is met. Our flow charts at the pump now show a gradual increase over the course of 18-20 minutes when the first round of programs start, just like Site-Pro would want it.

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   9/2/2015 8:09 AM

   Andy Jorgensen said: Michael,
   
   You are right.
   
   My North course is stand-alone Toro Network LTC+. We stagger start times a few minutes for the first run, second run etc....we have up to 12 programs for that course, and none have the same start time. This keeps the pump from drastically ramping up and spiking pressure to answer demand of everything coming on at once, then plateauing off once demand is met. Our flow charts at the pump now show a gradual increase over the course of 18-20 minutes when the first round of programs start, just like Site-Pro would want it.

   
   
   I did have to do something similar in NJ, where we had VT4 controllers. Our pressure system in the pump house didn't work, we would have to start one pump, start the system, then turn on the rest of the pumps, then ran things off the control boxes from there. At another course in Jersey were I did my OJT, we would do something similar, start the pumps, then the boxes, we had 3 fairways , one on each 9 we had to turn heads on manually. The other course I worked at in NJ, still had quick couplers, with a diesel pump. I really appreciate my system now, even with all of it's little quirks.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   9/2/2015 9:09 AM

   Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
   
   Steve

   
   
   
   
9. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   9/2/2015 10:09 AM

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
   
   Steve

   
   
   I have had old timers tell me that was the best way to learn to water, we would water stuff for an hour and then try to go as long as we could before watering again. We would just be pulling hoses waiting for some rain to keep OT down. They say now it is to easy to just turn on the computer and run things.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
10. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/2/2015 11:09 AM

    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
    
    Steve

    
    
    I have had old timers tell me that was the best way to learn to water, we would water stuff for an hour and then try to go as long as we could before watering again. We would just be pulling hoses waiting for some rain to keep OT down. They say now it is to easy to just turn on the computer and run things.
    
    Mel

    
    
    They obviously have Alzheimer's and don't remember what a completely crappy job that was.
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
11. Daniel Jurgens

    

    2 posts
    
    9/2/2015 12:09 PM

    I use quite a few start times and different programs as well. I have the same setup you do with no communication between pumps and controller so just have to keep things adjusted correctly and fit into my hydraulic capacity. Very effective really, as long as you know your system.
    Dan Kragero Resort Norway

    
    
    
    
12. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    9/2/2015 3:09 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    Same here Steve. First course I worked on was all quick couplers. I started out as Fairway water dude using those big armed impact sprinklers. You would have to stake them in so they didn't back out. After a year I graduated to Greens night water dude. In either case you would put out your sprinklers then go start the pumps and run around all night moving heads. Those were the days.

    
    
    
    
13. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/2/2015 3:09 PM

    Keith Lamb said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    Same here Steve. First course I worked on was all quick couplers. I started out as Fairway water dude using those big armed impact sprinklers. You would have to stake them in so they didn't back out. After a year I graduated to Greens night water dude. In either case you would put out your sprinklers then go start the pumps and run around all night moving heads. Those were the days.

    
    
    We were scared of the pump and used to reach in the door of the pump house and flip the switch with a stick.

    
    
    
    
14. Wally Dowe

    

    0 posts
    
    9/2/2015 5:09 PM

    If you have sitepro you should have a hydraulic tree. Make sure the information in the hydraulic tree is as accurate as possible. You should also be able to stage or ramp up the pumps slowly so there are no surges at the beginning of the cycle. We used sitepro in the past and are now on lynx so I have forgotten what sitepro does not have compared to lynx. I can say the flow manager on lynx is greatly improved from the flow manager on sitepro.
    
    We use 15-20 different programs for each course. We even have separate programs for individual holes due to poor pressure so that those holes run when nothing else is running so it does not compete with flow/pressure.
    
    I would think with the changes you have made and improvement you have seen that the "proof is in the pudding" to your irrigators eyes.
    
    If you are seeing improvement, than continue to fine tune it.
    
    Wally Dowe
    Ventana Canyon
    Tucson, AZ

    
    
    
    
15. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    9/3/2015 6:09 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
    
    Steve

    
    
    I have had old timers tell me that was the best way to learn to water, we would water stuff for an hour and then try to go as long as we could before watering again. We would just be pulling hoses waiting for some rain to keep OT down. They say now it is to easy to just turn on the computer and run things.
    
    Mel

    
    
    They obviously have Alzheimer's and don't remember what a completely crappy job that was.
    
    Steve

    
    
    Well not when they used it as an excuse to get away from the wife and drink beer.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
16. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    9/3/2015 6:09 PM

    Keith Lamb said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    Same here Steve. First course I worked on was all quick couplers. I started out as Fairway water dude using those big armed impact sprinklers. You would have to stake them in so they didn't back out. After a year I graduated to Greens night water dude. In either case you would put out your sprinklers then go start the pumps and run around all night moving heads. Those were the days.

    
    
    I've never heard of specialized night waters, you guys were high tech even back then. But I guess when I think of it, the guys that did greens were more experienced. We had some greens with a coupler in the middle of it, and we had to pull a plug out to put the head in. I preferred watering fairways, I didn't have to get out and run around the green putting heads in.
    
    No matter where I worked watering at night, there were areas of the course I did before it got dark, otherwise I would scare myself out there.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
17. Cecil Daniel

    

    0 posts
    
    9/4/2015 9:09 AM

    When I started we watered at night on 1 hr sets. I would spend the evening swimming for balls between sets. When it was time to change them up I would ride to the first one and wash off in the sprinkler. Pumping from the aquifer with a 400ft plus well. The water was better than what came out of the tap at home.

    
    
    
    
18. Daniel Stover

    

    0 posts
    
    9/4/2015 10:09 AM

    Your foreman should stick to being a foreman. Make as many start times and programs as you water efficiently. Anybody that uses 1 start time and one program for fairways and roughs is not someone you want to take advice from in the first place.

    
    
    
    
19. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    9/4/2015 1:09 PM

    I still don't get it, whats the point of multiple start times for the same program?

    
    
    
    
20. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    9/5/2015 8:09 AM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Keith Lamb said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Hey Mel....my first job in golf was as a night waterman. I would plug in 8 knocker heads and 2 hoses and then start the pump and hope I didn't blow any pipe out of the ground.
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    Same here Steve. First course I worked on was all quick couplers. I started out as Fairway water dude using those big armed impact sprinklers. You would have to stake them in so they didn't back out. After a year I graduated to Greens night water dude. In either case you would put out your sprinklers then go start the pumps and run around all night moving heads. Those were the days.

    
    
    We were scared of the pump and used to reach in the door of the pump house and flip the switch with a stick.

    
    You haven't experienced what it means to be alive until you walk into an unlit pumphouse at midnight with a squirrel using your head as a spring board to leave the building. That being said, I loved night watering. Bring out a buddy or two, strategically portion a case of beer into all the various coolers, and plug in 808s all night long. It worked flawlessly until my boss was getting a drink only to have a Molson Stock Ale label come out the spigot

    
    
    
    
21. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/5/2015 11:09 AM

    You haven't experienced what it means to be alive until you walk into an unlit pumphouse at midnight with a squirrel using your head as a spring board to leave the building. That being said, I loved night watering. Bring out a buddy or two, strategically portion a case of beer into all the various coolers, and plug in 808s all night long. It worked flawlessly until my boss was getting a drink only to have a Molson Stock Ale label come out the spigot
    
    
    
    He was just mad because you were drinking Molson.

    
    
    
    
22. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    9/5/2015 5:09 PM

    Back then we had two choices. Molson or Labatt. The stuff they export to you Merkins is the backwash from the draft spillover tray.

    
    
    
    
23. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/5/2015 7:09 PM

    Larry Allan said: Back then we had two choices. Molson or Labatt. The stuff they export to you Merkins is the backwash from the draft spillover tray.

    
    
    
    You've gone daft from too much skunk beer. so much for our concern for the original post, eh?

    
    
    
    
24. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    9/5/2015 9:09 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Larry Allan said: Back then we had two choices. Molson or Labatt. The stuff they export to you Merkins is the backwash from the draft spillover tray.

    
    
    
    You've gone daft from too much skunk beer. so much for our concern for the original post, eh?

    
    
    Gee I remember when a high-jacking like this would lead to a knuckle rapping. In my garage band days we would get Black Label.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
25. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    9/6/2015 7:09 AM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Larry Allan said: Back then we had two choices. Molson or Labatt. The stuff they export to you Merkins is the backwash from the draft spillover tray.

    
    
    
    You've gone daft from too much skunk beer. so much for our concern for the original post, eh?

    
    I have 69 programs but only 10 are in regular use. The others are instant programs I use from the radio to water in fairways and tees behind me spraying.
    PS never drink beer that comes in a clear bottle. It goes skunk the second it leaves the case and sees sunlight. Brown Bottle or cans only if you truly appreciate beer

    
    
    
    
26. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/6/2015 9:09 AM

    Larry Allan said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Larry Allan said: Back then we had two choices. Molson or Labatt. The stuff they export to you Merkins is the backwash from the draft spillover tray.

    
    
    
    You've gone daft from too much skunk beer. so much for our concern for the original post, eh?

    
    I have 69 programs but only 10 are in regular use. The others are instant programs I use from the radio to water in fairways and tees behind me spraying.
    PS never drink beer that comes in a clear bottle. It goes skunk the second it leaves the case and sees sunlight. Brown Bottle or cans only if you truly appreciate beer

    
    
    
    You are right about the clear bottles. I am not a beer aficionado, but I no longer drink beer from a clear bottle. I have to admit that I have committed that sin multiple times in the past, but like the Kentucky clerk, I have seen the errors of my ways and all my sins are washed away!
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
27. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    9/7/2015 8:09 AM

    That Kentucky Clerk is Smokin Hot. I certainly understand why she was in such demand with the neighbourhood boys.

    
    
    
    
28. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/7/2015 11:09 AM

    Larry Allan said: That Kentucky Clerk is Smokin Hot. I certainly understand why she was in such demand with the neighbourhood boys.

    
    
    Sets the bar pretty low, eh? I'm sure it's because of her incredibly high morality quotient.

    
    
    
    
29. Michael Rogers

    

    2 posts
    
    9/7/2015 2:09 PM

    The hijack was after plenty of good information. My critics here used to irrigate during the night. They would do 3 stations in lower course and 1 arriba ( no translation available ). We have 502 stations now and a 10 hour irrigation window, hmmmmm. 10 minutes was the base, hmmmm.
    
    It seems you would need to have 502 x 10 = 5020 minutes which is 83 hours, so if you want to complete this cycle it is necessary 8.3 stations al vez ( no translation available ).
    
    As for beer, I haven´t seen a clear bottle of beer since I cannot remember. It is Belgian, Weissbeir, Spanish Alhambra verde ( no translation available ), La Reina ( no translation available ). Tsingtao 五 六 七 八 九, translation available )was my staple for 14 years before moving abroad where beer was invented.
    
    Thanks for support Saludos ( no translation available ) MR ( beer bongs are cool if you keep your eye on the funnel ) ps 100 million people in the US speak Spanish