New Irrigation System

Joseph Perry

0 posts

5/21/2015 11:05 AM

Forum Members,

I am in the planning stages of installing a new, state of the art, wall to wall irrigations system and am seeking advice and input from members with recent and relevant experience on the following topics;

2 wire or decoder systems
Toro's new Infinity sprinkler head
HDPE pipe
Loop vs. Herringbone fairway piping layout

No sales pitches please.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Joe Perry CGCS
Eagles Landing Golf Course
Ocean City, MD

Andy Jorgensen

1 posts

5/22/2015 9:05 AM

We have been looking at same system. Our designer called for PVC mainline with HDPE loop laterals with two points of connection for the tees/fairways and single point for greens. Only thing I did not like about the original design was they called for 2" HDPE on the tee/fairway laterals rather than 3". Their argument was 2" HDPE has same flow as 2.5" PVC. I feel more comfortable knowing that we often run 6 stations(12 heads) at times and I want flow that comes from the 3" HDPE.

Also, our plan called for HDPE sleeves for the PVC road crossings. This was a huge expense that could be avoided by boring the HDPE under the road, and connecting the PVC on either side. No sleeve would be used except for the 2" HDPE put in for control and power wires. I feel this change will save us almost $40k.

We are going with the two wire decoder with Infinity heads. We have a Hunter decoder system on the roadways that has been great. What is especially nice about the two wire systems are if you ever want to add a head, change control to single, double or triple head arrangement, etc....you can do it without running wire all the way back to the satellite. Just change the decoder address.

Another point to make is that they are designing in multiple grounding locations on each hole. I have also heard of people running a third wire so that they have a spare should one of the wires be compromised. You may also look at the two-wire jacketed wire rather than the two-wire twisted pair.

Joseph Perry

0 posts

5/22/2015 11:05 AM

Andy,

Great stuff , thanks so much for sharing with me. That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

Joe

Tyler Broderick

2 posts

5/22/2015 6:05 PM

I just started at a course that had new irrigation system installed last fall. We are the first course in the state to have the 2 wire Toro decoder system. It is great. Having each head individually assigned is awesome. I never have to water more heads than I need. I would recommend. Be very careful at install though. Any little nick in the wire will cause a comm failure so splice with caution. We chase a lot of faults due to bad wiring, the decoders work great.

I can't speak about the piping stuff.

Tyler Broderick

2 posts

5/22/2015 7:05 PM

I should add this too. I don't know whether it was the irrigation design or the way Lynx works, but I have two sets of numbers to use when watering. My maps all have a number 1-400 that each corresponding to a head on that wire. Lynx has those numbers too, but there is a second set of numbers for programs. It gets tricky. So for example, green number three could have heads 291,293,295,297,299 when looking at the 2-wire numbers and also have greens 1-5. You kinda have to memorize both numbers and they can change too. So if I re-designate a fairway head to a rough head it will still be 2-wire head 197, but it may have been fairway head 16. !6 is now eliminated and all the other heads move up to fill the 16 spot and everything is now different.

I don't know if I explained that clearly enough, but I hope you get it. I don't know why it is like that.

Andy Jorgensen

1 posts

5/23/2015 5:05 AM

Tyler Broderick said: Be very careful at install though. Any little nick in the wire will cause a comm failure so splice with caution. We chase a lot of faults due to bad wiring, the decoders work great.

This is why I recommend the jacketed wire rather than twisted pair. Only issue we have had so far was the twisted pair installed on our roadways began to fail prematurely. We have almost replaced all of it with the jacketed wire. This is especially true if you are plowing in laterals and pulling the wire with the pipe. Very easy to damage.

Lee Strutt

0 posts

5/25/2015 4:05 AM

Morning Joe,

"2 wire or decoder systems"
here in the UK, we have been using two wire decoder systems since the mid seventies and have only got better and better. The key things to ensure are that the cable integrity is thoroughly for checked for low resistance and ensure all the wire connections are soldered (specify in the contract specification).

"Toro's new Infinity sprinkler head"
Just installed 10 of these and had them for just over a year. Same internals as the Toro 835's but the rest is new, great invention and keeps everything easily serviced from the top, no need to start digging unless you have a leak.

"HDPE pipe"
Been installed in the UK since the mid 90's, admittedly we are using MDPE (much cheaper) but using HDPE on fittings. it is without doubt a no brainer!!! After repairing PVC for years, this is the way forward. Smoother, more efficient and stronger, easier to repair, etc. Don't think anyone in the UK or Ireland even install PVC anymore?

"Loop vs. Herringbone fairway piping layout"
We have to main legs on the fairway, one for each side, so if one fails? it doesn't mean that the whole fairway is shut off.

If you want anymore information, just email me on l.strutt@gwest.co.uk

Regards

Lee
<br>

Joseph Perry

0 posts

5/26/2015 10:05 AM

Thanks guys, all good stuff. Anybody else!

Harlyn Goldman

0 posts

5/31/2015 12:05 PM

Joe,

2 wire without a doubt is more economical and modular for future expansion. If you're installing decoders for any block-type zones (think clubhouse irrigation), I'd suggest a good record of decoder locations as they're difficult to find in covered/forgotten valve boxes. You can't locate them with a 521/700. Also, repair to a 2-wire path is simple. Be sure the required surge protectors are installed correctly.

No personal experience with HDPE but I know there's a greater cost and learning curve for repairs/expansions. But it'll outlast PVC for sure. Herringbone is preferred if your goal is to keep mainlines out of fairways, but with HDPE it's unlikely there will be many breaks.

Call me a pessimist, but I'd insist on a backup means to run programs should the central fail, regardless of which setup you ultimately select.

Lastly, you can never have too many isolation valves.

HG

Michael Kuhn

0 posts

7/2/2015 1:07 PM

We just had a new system installed last year. It is a 2-wire system and I highly recommend it. The savings on wire and the fact you can always easily install an extra lateral is great. Definitely go with the jacketed type. Also, don't loop the wire with your laterals. Dead end them at each run and it will make troubleshooting so much easier. All of our communication wire for fairways runs along each row starting in the approach and runs toward the tee and dead ends at the last head. Same with the tee loops. They dead end at the heads farthest from the green. Like Andy said, be careful with the splices. Our contractor used a bead of solder at each splice which will reduce voltage loss.
Tees, Fairways and Greens all have their own loops with a single isolation valve while the Fairways have 2 isolation valves.
HDPE is the way to go. We looked at PVC mains with HDPE laterals but opted to go 100% HDPE. That means everything except for swing joints is fused.
Those Toro heads look pretty sweet and easy to work on but I went with RainBird because the Stratus system is easier to use in my opinion. But that is simply my preference. Good Luck!!!

Kevin O'Brien

0 posts

7/5/2015 11:07 AM

Michael Kuhn said: We just had a new system installed last year. It is a 2-wire system and I highly recommend it. The savings on wire and the fact you can always easily install an extra lateral is great. Definitely go with the jacketed type. Also, don't loop the wire with your laterals. Dead end them at each run and it will make troubleshooting so much easier. All of our communication wire for fairways runs along each row starting in the approach and runs toward the tee and dead ends at the last head. Same with the tee loops. They dead end at the heads farthest from the green. Like Andy said, be careful with the splices. Our contractor used a bead of solder at each splice which will reduce voltage loss.
Tees, Fairways and Greens all have their own loops with a single isolation valve while the Fairways have 2 isolation valves.
HDPE is the way to go. We looked at PVC mains with HDPE laterals but opted to go 100% HDPE. That means everything except for swing joints is fused.
Those Toro heads look pretty sweet and easy to work on but I went with RainBird because the Stratus system is easier to use in my opinion. But that is simply my preference. Good Luck!!!

We installed toro two wire system a year ago. Very simple to trouble shoot. Make sure one guy does the wire splices. 100%HDPE with jacket wire. The more grounding the better. We bored under stream crossing and trenched roadway. We put a PVC sleeve over the HDPE for added protection

Christopher Flynn

0 posts

7/12/2015 2:07 PM

Hey Andy - who are using for your design?

Andy Jorgensen

1 posts

7/12/2015 2:07 PM

Christopher Flynn, CGCS said: Hey Andy - who are using for your design?

Wesco Turf subbed it out to Mike Pignato. (561) 422-8873

Keith Pegg

0 posts

8/5/2015 4:08 PM

Course next door is doing a new irrigation system,
I have given him a few of my ideas
does anyone or more have ideas they would like to share

Regards,

Keith

Peter Bowman

11 posts

8/5/2015 9:08 PM

A nearly retired buddy of mine would tell your neighbor course Superintendent to get a good, trustworthy, knows-what-he's-doing kind of guy to be a night waterman and go that route. Getting (and keeping) that kind of guy is not easy. Otherwise, hmmmmmmmmm.

Clay Putnam

33 posts

8/6/2015 10:08 AM

HTPE.

Keith Fellenstein

0 posts

8/6/2015 11:08 AM

Going through the planning stages now. Have never been happy with how approaches have been irrigated or seen anything in all my years. Doing a lot of out of the box thinking and designing trying to find something that fits our needs and budget. Would like to hear from anyone that has done something "different" as well.

Corey Eastwood

80 posts

8/6/2015 11:08 AM

Peter Bowman, CGCS said: A nearly retired buddy of mine would tell your neighbor course Superintendent to get a good, trustworthy, knows-what-he's-doing kind of guy to be a night waterman and go that route. Getting (and keeping) that kind of guy is not easy. Otherwise, hmmmmmmmmm.

I think I can one up Pete. When planning a new system a member/farmer told the BOD to by aluminum pipe and set it out every evening and pick it up in the morning. True story.

Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired

Ronald Conard

4 posts

8/7/2015 12:08 PM

Research the performance data of the various sprinklers prior to making a decision. Then time permitting do some self testing and catch tests of the of the top two or three on site. Saving money upfront on poor performing heads is money wasted in the long run.

https://www.fresnostate.edu/jcast/cit/goods/profiles.html

Jon Canavan

0 posts

8/10/2015 12:08 PM

I have been fortune enough to have overseen 2 irrigation installations the past two season.

Starting in this order I feel that these are important.

1. Hire a good irrigation designer! This will make or break your project!
2. Hire a good irrigation installer. You are going to be spending a lot of time with them. Make sure they have references.
3. When you decide on which system you want. Make sure that the local distributor of said product is strong. You don't want to be begging for parts or waiting on shipments.
4. Stuff is going to happen. Contractor's drive in the wrong area, equipment gets stuck, and golfers are going to complain.
5. Enjoy the process.

Jon Canavan

Milwaukee County Parks

Keith Pegg

0 posts

8/10/2015 4:08 PM

thanks for the replys and emails,
it was a big help.
Based on your help all of you and my own ideas:
I wrote back to him.

25 year life is a lot, to ask for, how about 25 year with upgrades at 10 and 20 as needed.

110,000 gal tank is very little (he wanted this), most systems would pump this in 2-3 hours easy 300,000 plus would be min I would think. (Our lakes at #5 hole are 7 million plastic lined and they are great. If we lost all water in July or Aug we could maybe go 20 days longer if just greens) I have a small water tank 275,000 gal so I have detuned our system so we do not drain it in 8 hours. I have it set for 9 hours at 600 gal per min. My normal use is only 100,000 to 130,000 gal a night in summer.

If you could cut PSI to 100 you could save 10% on electric cost?

Main lines need to be 4" min and 6" even better. Maybe some 8+"

Lateral lines 2" and 4" if need stay away from odd sizes like 1.25, 1.5, 2.5, 3" these add to repair inventories and sometimes are hard to get parts because they are not used as often.

Training: (WE ARE IN JAPAN)
Send two people to school with Rain bird or Toro and if one of them leaves send a new man. Apple I pad is good just make sure it is compatible with system and set up by T or RB.

Get as AS-BUILT to the foot (M) with electronic and paper copies after system is in. Metric and or English is okay however the operating system is not both so if you go Metric pipe and fitting go Metric and if you go Imperial go feet. If not mistakes will be made.

As for Design: get an irrigation designer not the free or low cost Toro or Rain bird. They will just add things you do not need. As for that person you may have to visit some projects in the Sunbelt USA and see and talk to system owners.

Keith

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