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1. Steven Kurta

   

   2 posts
   
   11/19/2015 6:11 AM

   Trying to talk myself out of moving to a 15 blade greens triplex mowing outfit on an upcoming clean sweep equipment lease. Halp.
   
   current mowers; JD 180B -- -- 0.120/groomers/grooved/11-blade.. GK4 triplex on greens in fall and spring with no perceivable difference in ball roll.
   
   Weighing moving to triplex 14-15 blade greens mowers vs. flex-type walkers.
   
   Assuming the following:
   - Flatish, wide-open greens with room to turn
   - Firm greens w/good drainage -- 20 years of topdressing over native soil
   - Rolling daily (when we have play to warrant it)
   - 14-15 bladed reels
   
   I understand the walker will benefit ball roll from a slight roll from the drive drum, but otherwise, why would you choose one over the other? Is it just aesthetics? Is it the "optics" of seeing walking mowers out there because "Augusta/Oak hill/Monied-courses-do-it-and-we-want-the-best" mentality? And if that's the case, is it just a perception versus reality thing that I'm using 2 extra guys on in the morning? When I go to and come from triplex in fall and spring i don't notice a difference in ball roll quality. But the members see a triplex and get all "well, there goes ball roll." Because the stimp readings don't back that up.
   
   I'm not sure I buy the aggressive bedknife angle geometry hokum. My experience is if you mow low enough on firm and regulated greens, and are using a greens roller regularly, speed will be the least of your worries.
   
   Thanks for any input.

   
   
   
   
2. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   11/19/2015 6:11 AM

   We have a 14 blade Toro TriFlex for the shoulder season and 14 blade Flex 21 s for the main season. Other than the stripping it is difficult to tell the difference. All have front solid rollers cutting at .100

   
   
   
   
3. Michael Rogers

   

   2 posts
   
   11/19/2015 1:11 PM

   Hey Steve,
   I saw the hybrid diesel electric Jake triplex demoed a month or so ago. The electrics only control the reel speed. You can also program reel speed and ground speed that the operator can not change, hee hee.
   
   I believe the cutting units are interchangeable with their hand machines, the back cutting unit swivels out for easy access and you can lift up one of the front units to stripe like hand mowing for the aesthetics if you want to look like you hand cut but don´t (??).
   
   It is quite impressive. We try and hand cut Mon to Fri with Flex 21´s and triplex on weekends with rotation of Toro and JD to vary clean up lap, all at 3 mm.
   
   Saludos
   
   Michael Rogers
   Marbella Golf CC

   
   
   
   
4. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   11/19/2015 3:11 PM

   Hey Steve. I use Toro hybrid Triflexes year round. I roll with a Vibe 5 setup on another Toro triplex.
   I do use a walk mower for cleanup laps. It's not really necessary, I just like it.
   I see no reason to walk mow anything other than it's somehow a measure of status.
   I have watched hundreds of people walk mow greens and I would say that, to a man, they all exert down pressure on the handle at some point causing the HOC to change. I prefer the HOC adjustment to be in the hands of the mechanic as opposed to the guy mowing the green.
   
   The other part of this issue is manpower and time. I would have to add at least two more guys to the crew to walk mow and that's just not happening.
   
   Regards,
   
   Steve

   
   
   
   
5. Steve Nelson

   

   0 posts
   
   11/20/2015 9:11 AM

   Ultimately it's up to your members, but it's hard to justify using three guys, three machines, and probably three scooters to do what one guy and one machine can do in the same time. We made the switch 20 years ago and never looked back. Of course we are a muni and I didn't have to justify it to anyone.
   
   Agree with Steve on the HOC thing. Sometimes perception and reality are two different things.
   
   If you do go triplex. I suggest looking at the toro's. The sealed rollers and basic setup will save your mechanic a few hours per week.

   
   
   
   
6. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   11/20/2015 9:11 AM

   Triplex year around here with Toro 3150Q's and 11 bladed reels. I agree with you on HOC, regulation and firmess can affect quite a bit. One guy = 3 hours with a triplex vs. 4 guys = 3 hours each with walkers. Ain't gonna happ'n cap't!

   
   
   
   
7. John Moore

   

   0 posts
   
   11/20/2015 11:11 AM

   We gave up walkmowing about fifteen years ago, we had to, it was a business decision. Walkmowing, IMO, is harder to teach and,unless your operators are well trained, you stand more of a chance of inconsistent greens. On a triplex mower with its width of cut you are making less passes on a green and therefore less chance of missing overlap. There is no extra downpressure from the operator if your using the more rigid mowers like Jac 522"s or PGM's. (remember this was fifteen years ago). I've even noticed as an operator is walking along the green the front roller coming off the ground as he walks.

   
   
   
   
8. Douglas Hoeh

   

   0 posts
   
   11/21/2015 7:11 AM

   My vote would be for the walkers. I am not against the triplexes but I can send 3 guys out to walkmow greens in 2.5 hours or 1 triplex and 1 roller and have it done in 4 hours. I can accomplish so much more in a day with the extra time allowed by having the greens done so fast. Yes it does take one more staff member but I can easily justify it with letting play off a little earlier and the extra work that is getting accomplished the rest of the day.
   
   Andy, it doesn't make sense that the walk mowers would take the same amount of time as the triplexes. You can cut 3 greens at a time with the walk mowers and only 1 with the triplex. Granted if you figure a little BS time in there, it can take the same amount of time. Hard to stop and BS with yourself...although I had one guy talk to himself all day while mowing.

   
   
   
   
9. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   11/21/2015 3:11 PM

   Douglas Hoeh said: My vote would be for the walkers. I am not against the triplexes but I can send 3 guys out to walkmow greens in 2.5 hours or 1 triplex and 1 roller and have it done in 4 hours. I can accomplish so much more in a day with the extra time allowed by having the greens done so fast. Yes it does take one more staff member but I can easily justify it with letting play off a little earlier and the extra work that is getting accomplished the rest of the day.
   
   Andy, it doesn't make sense that the walk mowers would take the same amount of time as the triplexes. You can cut 3 greens at a time with the walk mowers and only 1 with the triplex. Granted if you figure a little BS time in there, it can take the same amount of time. Hard to stop and BS with yourself...although I had one guy talk to himself all day while mowing.

   
   
   
   We have almost 4 acres of greens. I figure one acre per person. My experience is from start to finish, it takes about 3 hours to mow that acre of grass with a walker. On the other hand, my triplex can mow the same area in 3 hours. I have done it myself, so just going by experience. You also have to remember that a walk mower travels at the same speed across the green as a triplex, but only cuts 1/3 of the grass. It equals in the long run.
   
   How many acres do your 3 guys mow in that 2.5 hours?

   
   
   
   
10. Greg George

    

    0 posts
    
    11/21/2015 6:11 PM

    We have been using Toro Flex 21's with 11 blade reels and a quick clip kit which is a larger reel drive pulley to increase reel speed. We have several greens with sharp inclines and daily tri-plexing would be asking for trouble. We are able to mow to mow 3 acres of greens with 3 people on carts and trailers and it takes 2.5 hours from loading to everything clean and put away. I like the fact that the operators have the ability to lug away the clippings, along with the ability to get back to the shop if there is a problem. The 3 mowers also provides flexibility to re-route if a machine goes down or if we face a split tee start. Once they are done they can get out the door early to start their second assignment before the golfers get too thick.

    
    
    
    
11. Joe Wachter

    

    5 posts
    
    11/25/2015 1:11 PM

    My green surrounds are just a bit small to ride mow all season long without creating a turf issue. We wall mow and ride mow about 60/40 during the main season and using a triplex 3-4 days a week to roll which can create a little more wear and tear on the surrounds as well. About 11.5 total man hrs for 5 guys walk mowing and roll. About 5.5-6 hrs when ride mow and roll so there is a difference. Will usually ride mow on Mondays(outing) short turnaround, Fridays mow everything for weekend, and Sundays(smallest staffing availability since we walk on Saturdays)
    
    I have old push up greens(4-6" sand cap) with fixed heads for walkers. When wet can create scalping issues, so I put a rider on them which reduces scalping but then you have tire track issues. Probably going to switch to a floating head next change out so I can walk during wetter situations, of course as I've gotten older I'm skipping more mowing days. Silly the pressure we put on ourselves to mow the greens when maybe only 1/2 a normal tee sheet is out playing because of wet conditions. In most cases my members are just happy to be out playing. Might here that one comment that greens are slow, well hell yes they are slow but they will get better over the next few days.

    
    
    
    
12. Steven Kurta

    

    2 posts
    
    12/3/2015 6:12 AM

    Thanks, all.
    
    That helped.
    Receiving proposals from Toro and Jac this week.
    Decisions next week after finance committee review.

    
    
    
    
13. Stephen Okula

    

    3 posts
    
    12/4/2015 10:12 PM

    I'm late to the party but I brought my 2 cents.
    
    We walkmow as much as we can, year round on smaller, tighter greens but use triplexes in the high growth season on the larger, open greens.
    
    I tried 14 blade reels and found no difference whatsoever versus the 11 blade reels. I don't know why they make the 14's.
    
    One advantage to walkmowers is the guarantee of no oil leaks. Over our two golf courses, I get several of those every year with the triplexes.

    
    
    
    
14. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    12/5/2015 3:12 PM

    The new hybrid mowers are a whole lot less likely to leak, although it's still possible to get a leak from a wheel motor.

    
    
    
    
15. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    12/5/2015 5:12 PM

    http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/course-care/forethegolfer/steps-to-make-your-course-unaffordable.html

    
    
    
    
16. Steven Scott

    

    0 posts
    
    12/7/2015 8:12 AM

    Keith Lamb said: http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/course-care/forethegolfer/steps-to-make-your-course-unaffordable.html

    
    
    
    I was waiting for someone to post that.....you could almost post it under every topic on this board.

    
    
    
    
17. Steven Kurta

    

    2 posts
    
    12/8/2015 8:12 PM

    Oh that's going up on the turf blog for the club this month. nice.

    
    
    
    
18. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    12/9/2015 5:12 AM

    Walk-mow greens and tees
    
    1) Avoid using labor efficient riding equipment whenever possible. "Surprisingly", a triplex mower is about three times more efficient than a single cutting unit.
    
    
    I immediately thought of this thread when reading this.

    
    
    
    
19. David Soltvedt

    

    0 posts
    
    12/10/2015 9:12 AM

    I started playing golf on a 9-hole course with sand greens. Sand Greens (with motor oil baby!). By the time I started working there they had converted them to grass. But, the good ol' John Deere used to pull the fairway "mower" around quite efficiently.
    
    https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/reel-mowers/reelmaster-universal-frames

    
    
    
    
20. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    12/11/2015 6:12 AM

    David Soltvedt, CGCS said: I started playing golf on a 9-hole course with sand greens. Sand Greens (with motor oil baby!). By the time I started working there they had converted them to grass. But, the good ol' John Deere used to pull the fairway "mower" around quite efficiently.
    
    https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/reel-mowers/reelmaster-universal-frames

    
    
    
    David,
    
    I have 5 of those for our rough mowers. Still the most efficient mower on the market and costs us very little to operate. Three of mine are of the Parkmaster variety, while the other two are the newer Reelmasters. We have one that we use daily that is over 20 years old.