Fat leaves Cancel The title field is required!

1. Fleegel Timothy

   
   7/14/2011 10:07 AM

   I am trying to figure out why by bentgrass leaves on the greens are so fat. I have Putter bentgrass and I'm stumped. Any ideas why and how I can fix this?

   
   
   
   
2. Homme David R

   
   7/14/2011 4:07 PM

   I think its related to N source and water. I get "fat" leaf blades when applying 21-0-0. More so than if I use 46-0-0 as my N source. Seems to be related mostly to rapid growth
   
   I find primo, backing off N and off water both helps, also verticut and lower HOC is helpful. I also see this at times when cutting frequency is reduced, spring and fall shoulder seasons. Plants get that "leggy" look.
   
   Hope this helps you somewhat.
   
   Dave Homme
   Falls Resort

   
   
   
   
3. Faulk Edward G

   
   7/14/2011 4:07 PM

   Tim, are you using Civitas? If so thats your problem.
   
   
   Ed Faulk
   Gold Mountain Golf Club
   Bremerton, Wa

   
   
   
   
4. Fleegel Timothy

   
   7/14/2011 6:07 PM

   I was using Civitas earlier in the year, but stopped. I've been using a triazone N source, applied bi-weekly at a rate of .12lbs/1000. I had both Primo and paclobutrazol in the tank and recently took out the Primo. We verticut and topdressed a couple weeks ago and it seems to be getting better, but still fatter than I would like to see.

   
   
   
   
5. Satterwhite Kerry

   
   7/15/2011 8:07 AM

   I've seen morphological changes in the leaf blade when soluble N sources are used in combination with PGR's and systemic fungicides, particularly the triazoles. The GA inhibitors affect cell elongation so in this type of maintenance regime you may see a widening of the leaf blade.

   
   
   
   
6. Fleegel Timothy

   
   7/15/2011 10:07 AM

   Kerry is there another N source you reccomend?

   
   
   
   
7. Satterwhite Kerry

   
   7/15/2011 11:07 AM

   Tim
   
   I'm not sure the N source will make a difference. I think there is a synergistic effect when a soluble N is used with a PGR and a fungicide in the triazole class of chemistry. The first time I saw this was when I applied a high rate of Banner Maxx and increased my Primo rates and used an Iron plus N to mask any discoloration. What is your fungicide rotation schedule? Maybe look at a contact or a different systemic.
   
   The next question that I would ask is if it is having a negative impact on playing conditions, green speed? More surface area of the leaf blade for the ball to come in contact with would equate to lower green speeds. That's the issue with some of the older bents, like the old south german bentgrasses.

   
   
   
   
8. Fleegel Timothy

   
   7/15/2011 12:07 PM

   I don't typically apply fungicides. This is my 4th season here and other than fall snow mold applications I've made 1 application of fungicide.
   
   It is having an effect on green speeds, I having a hard time getting them to the range we want.

   
   
   
   
9. Jason Knuutila

   

   0 posts
   
   7/16/2011 6:07 PM

   I'm spraying greens every 7 days mainly for this reason. I've found the bent gets a surge of growth coming out of regulation. Another super in the area has removed Primo from their program because of the surges. Also, we get water deep before we spray, then dry them down as this slows plant metabolism of the Primo and gets us the 7 days we're looking for.
   
   What's you HOC because we've got to be below .110 (Flex 21") to maintain any kind of texture. Lastly, do you overseed? If not think about it because during overseeding you're increasing your number of plants/square inch.
   
   Hope some of these ideas help because I've been dealing with the same issues during a poa erradication program for the past 6 years.

   
   
   
   
10. White Robert G

    
    7/19/2011 5:07 PM

    Use the brush Tim. You have asked about it before...saves $5K a year and grooms out fat leaves. Best money we have ever spent www.turfbrush.com
    
    Robert White, CGCS