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St. Augustine Grass conversion?

23 posts
  1. Daniel Walter
    Daniel Walter avatar
    0 posts
    1/11/2012 8:01 AM
    Hello,
    This is not a golf course related question but rather a personal question, therefore it may be in the wrong forum, please forgive me now......My uncle lives near Orlando and called me (Ohio) and asked how to get rid of his St. Ag. lawn and convert to Bermuda. I have no clue if that is wise or not but he claims it struggles each season, his open lot next to him has Bermuda and thrives, not to mention he plays golf at local courses with "nice Bermuda" fairways, roughs etc..
    Anybody near that area that can offer advice to me on how to proceed, sprig or seed Bermuda etc.

    Thanks in advance,

    Dan Walter



  2. Smith Kerry L
    Smith Kerry L avatar
    1/11/2012 8:01 AM
    Might be tough to kill it this time of year. I would think that a sod cutter set deep enough to get the stolons woukld work fine. Remove all the st augustine then sod with a hybrid like 419 or tifsport. Any st augustine that comes in, if any, could easily be removed with 2-4D or MSMA.



  3. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    1/11/2012 12:01 PM
    We have an employee that has just been throwing some bermuda seed in his yard each year and what comes up, comes up. He's been at this now and and has about 90% coverage. The bermuda will choke out the St. Augustine if kept at a lower height of cut and maintained correctly. He won't have to worry about fungus or chinch bugs anymore, but will now have to contend with Mole Crickets with limited options for residential turf. But, at least it won't die when he turns the water off.

    Or, Round-up and Fusilade and then sod. But, this won't be able to be completed until about March or April.

    An alternative is switching to Empire Zoysia. I made the switch in my own yard a few years back, as well as our new residential construction and common areas at work. I personally love it. With about 2-3# of N a year, and I only have to mow it about 20 times and it still looks good. Haven't put an insecticide on it in 5 years, but have had to fight some fungus in the fall. Will go off color quicker in a drought, but won't die like the St. Augustine. Worth a look.

    Several of the surrounding counties have actually outlawed St. Augustine in new construction, and Orange County (Orlando) a few years back was throwing around the idea of a $.50/ft2 buy back program if you replace with Bermuda, Bahia or Zoysia.



  4. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    1/11/2012 2:01 PM
    The only people around here who like St. Augustine are the sod farm and installers. Scalp it out and stop watering it and it will die. Like Andy said, you could just throw bermuda seed on it and the bermuda will outgrow it easily and choke it out. Did I mention I hate St. Augustine?



  5. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    1/11/2012 4:01 PM
    Baihia is the best option if you must have a grass lawn. It is drought tolerant, doesn't need to be irrigated at all and you can mow it at infinity.

    If I was gonna put in a new irrigated lawn, I would use Perrenial Peanut. You can mow it, it has a nice flower and it requires much, much less water than bermuda or st. auggy.

    We need to start thinking about alternatives to grass in our home lawns, we need to think about ground covers, natives and drought tolerant species. Water is our biggest challenge, it's scarce and very expensive and home lawns use far to much of a precious resource.


    Regards,

    Steve



  6. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    1/11/2012 4:01 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    If I was gonna put in a new irrigated lawn, I would use Perrenial Peanut. You can mow it, it has a nice flower and it requires much, much less water than bermuda or st. auggy.



    Regards,

    Steve



    Steve,

    I personally love the Perennial Peanut. We have lots of it on the roadsides up here. Only downside I have seen is it gets burnt back pretty bad and looks real ugly after a frost. But I'm with you. A much better alternative to turf if you can get away with it.



  7. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    1/11/2012 4:01 PM
    I was thinking Bahiagrass, but I personally have no real experience with it. I have seen it look absolutely perfect though.



  8. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    1/12/2012 5:01 AM
    Andy Jorgensen said:
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    If I was gonna put in a new irrigated lawn, I would use Perrenial Peanut. You can mow it, it has a nice flower and it requires much, much less water than bermuda or st. auggy.



    Regards,

    Steve



    Steve,

    I personally love the Perennial Peanut. We have lots of it on the roadsides up here. Only downside I have seen is it gets burnt back pretty bad and looks real ugly after a frost. But I'm with you. A much better alternative to turf if you can get away with it.


    Yeah, I hadn't thought about the frost factor, we don't see much of that this far south, but the few frosts we have had have not hurt the peanut. I think Bahia or Centipede would be beeter options than bermuda or zoysia.

    Regards,

    Steve



  9. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    1/12/2012 6:01 AM
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I was thinking Bahiagrass, but I personally have no real experience with it. .


    If you had experience with it, you would not recommend this turf as a lawn. Especially if you had to mow it with a push mower yourself. Way more weed issues, mole crickets, poor texture, extreme growth in the summer months....might be good for drainage ditches and roadsides, but there is better alternatives to St. Augustine than this for a lawn.



  10. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    1/12/2012 6:01 AM
    Andy Jorgensen said:
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I was thinking Bahiagrass, but I personally have no real experience with it. .


    If you had experience with it, you would not recommend this turf as a lawn. Especially if you had to mow it with a push mower yourself. Way more weed issues, mole crickets, poor texture, extreme growth in the summer months....might be good for drainage ditches and roadsides, but there is better alternatives to St. Augustine than this for a lawn.


    This has been my experience as well, but I have seen beautiful bahia lawns.



  11. Daniel Walter
    Daniel Walter avatar
    0 posts
    1/12/2012 8:01 AM
    Thanks to all for the information, he will be pleased.
    Dan



  12. Stephen Moffitt
    Stephen Moffitt avatar
    0 posts
    1/12/2012 8:01 AM
    This is my bahia lawn. If you enjoy maintaining a lawn and you are an average homeowner then not that bad of a grass. I actually overseed with rye in the winter just dont have any pics. I keep height of cut up and hit it with milorganite. Nip weeds in the butt early. The texture is funny and its not the kind of grass you would want to roll around in and that is why the back yard is 419 bermuda.



  13. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    1/12/2012 9:01 AM
    Had no idea you guys used bahia as a lawn grass in Florida.........strictly a pasture grass here and a weed on golf courses.........a bad one.



  14. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    1/12/2012 7:01 PM
    We used bahia as backyards back in late 60's and 70's, fronts where sodded with St. Augustine. It was also our roughs at the golf course. That's one nice yard Steve, never knew bahia could look that good.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  15. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    1/12/2012 8:01 PM
    Stephen Moffitt said: This is my bahia lawn. If you enjoy maintaining a lawn and you are an average homeowner then not that bad of a grass.


    The guy I knew that had a bahia yard this nice was in sales with no turf background. The cooperative extension service recommended bahia and told him how to grow it. He did not have an automatic irrigation system as I recall.



  16. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    1/14/2012 8:01 AM
    I guess since we are posting pictures of our yards.....

    [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/Walk-mowedEmpireZoysia.jpg[/img">

    My Empire Zoysia in the foreground, unirrigated Bahia in the background.



  17. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    1/16/2012 10:01 AM
    Andy Jorgensen said: I guess since we are posting pictures of our yards.....

    [img">http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/andyjorg/Walk-mowedEmpireZoysia.jpg[/img">

    My Empire Zoysia in the foreground, unirrigated Bahia in the background.

    That's a nice LAWN!....Zoisia is a lot tighter turf too...For choking out weeds ;) Have heard it's kinda ruff on reel's though.....but......That's a nice LAWN :idea:



  18. Mark Van Lienden
    Mark Van Lienden avatar
    14 posts
    1/16/2012 11:01 AM
    Here is my yaerd.



  19. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    1/16/2012 1:01 PM
    Mark Van Lienden, CGCS said: Here is my yaerd.

    That's just plain Beautiful :P



  20. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    1/16/2012 1:01 PM
    Mark Van Lienden, CGCS said: Here is my yaerd.


    I'll trade you.



  21. Mark Van Lienden
    Mark Van Lienden avatar
    14 posts
    1/17/2012 7:01 AM
    Let me think about it ..no.



  22. Patrick Reinhardt
    Patrick Reinhardt avatar
    0 posts
    1/17/2012 9:01 AM
    Andy Jorgensen said: I guess since we are posting pictures of our yards.....


    My Empire Zoysia in the foreground, unirrigated Bahia in the background.



    Your lines are crooked.



  23. Baker Daniel
    Baker Daniel avatar
    1/17/2012 11:01 AM
    Sorry, no lawn photos. I xeriscaped it so I dont have to mow it.....

    Sencor works well at St. Augustine removal after you overseed with bermuda. Just be very careful with your rates



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