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1. David Brudwick

   

   1 posts
   
   7/27/2011 7:07 PM

   I've had LDS all year long. My greens are sand based with tee 1 bentgrass. Every hump looks terrible. I've spiked, needle tined, used wetting agents and hand watered. The summer here in Minnesota has been hot and humid. I want to deep tine all the bad spots but was told not to. I don't think any grass is going to come back. I'm concerned and frustrated that I'm going to lose some greens. If anybody has any input it would be appreciated. Dave

   
   
   
   
2. Homme David R

   
   7/27/2011 8:07 PM

   I would be checking water quality. Salts and so on. Perhaps too much sodium hanging onto exchange sites and being taken up by the plant?
   
   I'd also consider the idea of using a compost on them this fall or perhaps next spring. I have a tee box that I was asked to convert into a putting green. It's coarse sand and all I did was strip it, till it, top up with a finer greens grade sand, and sod.
   
   It didn't do well the first summer heat, so I punched it and mixed compost with sand and just buried it. It does much better in the heat now.
   
   Just some thoughts, good luck.
   
   Dave Homme
   Falls Resort

   
   
   
   
3. Letterman David M

   
   7/27/2011 8:07 PM

   Friend I hate to hear that you are having trouble with your Greens. Are you sure that you have LDS and have you tested the affected area for disease? I thought I had LDS last season and it turned out that we had Pythium Volutim. We had done everything we normally do for LDS and the problems kept getting worse. I was in denial, but I reluctantly sprayed the greens for the problem and finally got it under control. We sprayed on 14 day intervals for 2 months during the summer to get by. We lost turf, but we pushed the greens hard with foliar fertility and got the ones affected back to 90% by the fall of the year. A friend of mine who was a vendor in our area was the one who suggested that we may have this disease. My answer to him was "hell no, there is no way"! But, I was wrong. Just throw'n that out there for you to consider.

   
   
   
   
4. David Brudwick

   

   1 posts
   
   7/27/2011 11:07 PM

   I'm pretty sure its lds. When I put a soil probe in about 5 inches and pull it out the first half inch is wet and the rest is powder. I should look into it also being a disease. You just never know. Thanks for your help. Dave

   
   
   
   
5. Wilkinson Gaeren S

   
   7/28/2011 3:07 AM

   Hi.
   I have has similar problems and have found that a combination of of Aquifer & Aqua-Aid has helped alleviates the symptoms. I then apply Oars 2 to 3 times a year at full rates which treats the cause of the problem.
   
   Aquifer on its own holds too much moisture back and causes a whole host of other problems so play with the combination of the Aqua-Aid / Aquifer.
   www.aquaaid.com
   
   All the best
   Gaeren

   
   
   
   
6. Kinney Brian

   
   7/28/2011 8:07 AM

   Sodex flush them boys, I had some good luck with a flushing agent, also look into other wetting agents like Down and Thru or Panterra is great tool too. Good luck man, pray for some heavy rain too.

   
   
   
   
7. David Sweet

   

   0 posts
   
   7/28/2011 9:07 AM

   Dave,
   I have been dealing with the same type of thing as you. I'm not sure if I would call my problem localized dry spot or generalized dry spot (new term). Bottom line the greens have not been holding any moisture. Through yesterday we only had .4" rain. My plan of action is to flush the greens (done last night with irrigation and mother nature), needle tine, spike and push with foliars. I think with the lack of rain I had some salt build up. Today after we flushed them they look much better than yesterday, seemed to perk up. They were still nice and firm and we were able to needle tine today. They probably received about 3" of water last night through irrigation and rainfall. I have never flushed greens before and I was leery, but after seeing them today and looking at and smelling the profile I will be doing this at least monthly if not more. Hope this helps.

   
   
   
   
8. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   7/28/2011 10:07 AM

   A lot of this goes away with good distribution uniformity. When was the last time the distribution was, spacing was checked, heads raised and leveled, nozzles changed, and pressure checked and adjusted? Of course if you have course where the architect just threw heads around the perimeter with no thought of future maintenance, then you'll be dragging a hose to fill in the blanks.

   
   
   
   
9. Baker Daniel

   
   7/28/2011 3:07 PM

   From a guy who deals with salt issues all the time, I'd say flush them first. You won't lose anything except some Ca, Mg, K and N.
   
   Get the best penetrating wetting agent you know of (for me it's Floratine's Pervade). Get the best salt remediation product you know of (I use Floratine's Calphlex and Helena's ECe-XK alternately with great success. If you believe in Humic of Fulvic acid, throw that in the tank also. This is where I deviate from most people. I water in right after I spray to a depth of about 1/2" (13 minutes per head for me) and then let it sit. That night, I run the longest cycles possible with the longest repeats possible to flush deep. A proper flush on a USGA spec green will leave your greens profile with some, but not much moisture. Follow this with a good foliar feeding of Ca, Mg, K and N along with some Mn for good measure. Make sure you put it back in the soil with the product of your choice (K-mag, Duration 0-0-50, Gypsum, Sul-Po-Mag, etc)
   
   This works well for me in my situation and should have zero harmful effects if salt accumulation is not the problem. If theres anything I've learned it is that every golf course is different and what works for me in a certain situation may work even better, or not at all, for you.
   
   Good luck with your greens.

   
   
   
   
10. David Brudwick

    

    1 posts
    
    7/30/2011 2:07 PM

    Thanks for all the suggestions. Hopefully I can get this problem under control. Thanks again.. Dave

    
    
    
    
11. James Rauhuff

    

    0 posts
    
    7/30/2011 2:07 PM

    If you are probing down to five inches and it is powder but with moisture up top, I would say that your soil has become hydrophobic. We had a problem with LDS a few years ao and although we tried many WA's, most seemed to either hold too much water, or dry the crowns out (revolution, symphony). We haved used a product by Mitchell Products called Tri-Cure for the past three years and it has worked very well. They make hose end applicator tablets as well for those hard to penetrate areas. A couple of our greens developed hydrophobic areas and after using the tablets we have no problems getting water down past that organic layer.

    
    
    
    
12. Joshua Gehman

    

    1 posts
    
    8/5/2011 4:08 PM

    This was the first year in a long time that I skipped the Cascade plus in favor of a monthly applied product. I am quite sorry I did. The LDS's this year are driving me up the wall. I had a little Cascade left over and sprayed what was left on the few worst greens. They are now looking very good.

    
    
    
    
13. Churchill Kevin

    
    8/6/2011 8:08 AM

    I'm with Ron on this one....distribution uniformity. In addition, it may be worth reducing your nozzle sizes so that the droplets are smaller and less water is applied per rotation. This will reduce the surface runoff on the humps. It may take 15 rotations with the reduced sprinkler nozzles vs. only 5 or so, but you'll be more apt to get the water into the soil profile. Therefore, when you reduce your nozzle sizes, you'll need to increase the run time due to the lower PR rates.
    
    Kevin Churchill