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Two week update, TifEagle thick patches? Pictures now added!

11 posts
  1. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    9/18/2014 7:09 AM
    Good morning everyone. I have 15 year old TifEagle greens that has always had patches, large and small that always looked like the grain was growing the opposite way of the rest of the greens. These patches have always been the first areas to start scalping towards the end of the summer. In the past I have been able to remedy the scalping by raising my mowers up .010" and verticutting. I know my verticutting program is not done often enough due to restrictions on my small crew but we have made due and the one year I had to go up to .150" after summer my members swore the greens were the fastest ever (that was mainly in their heads). Point being I have always been able to correct the issue without much effort.

    This year seems different though. A week ago I noticed my mower was starting to scalp again but we had our Member-Member up for the weekend so I just raised my HOC enough to get by the weekend which ended up getting canceled due to 4" of rain Friday. Monday I started verticutting them to help get them backunder control only to find that I was scalping even worse. I raised my verticutters up thinking if I did not grab too much turf it may control some of the scalping. No dice it still scalped and I even tried just cutting the greens at .160" without verticutting and was still scalping. I then figured I had no choice but to go deeper with my verticutters in order to thin out my greens. We took a lot out of them but this morning we were scalping at .130" again. When I look at the turf I see long stalks which are extremely thick or tight. if you run your hand against the grain you see a lot of turf get stood up. I know it is the bedknife which is causing the scalping, the flat edge is pushing the turf in bunches and then chopping it off. My problems is only in about 7 greens currently.

    I feel that I may of caused this when we aerified the greens. yeilding to pressure to get the holes filled in faster we applied a lot of sand to the tops of the green, basically burrying the plant. I think they grew longer in order to get sunlight which caused the long stalks. then they thickend up and got grainy so to say.

    I am looking for any advice out there. has anyone faced this issue in the past? if so what did you do. With only about 2 months of growing season left I am short of time to make drastic changes and I still have our club championship, Member-Member tournaments as well as some outside tournaments to go.

    When we verticut them deep Monday I went back and forth over the same track in order to get the grain on every path as well as going 90 degrees of that. I took out a lot of material but it looks like no where near enough. My first thoughts is to verticut them again in a different direction in hopes of thinning them out some more. My second thought is to just raise my HOC and let them grow back in and hope I will not have to keep getting higher and higher with the HOC before the cold season hits us. I am even considering grinding down the bottom edge of our bedknives in order to reduce the edge that is pushing the turf but do not think that will make a large difference.

    [url=http://s458.photobucket.com/user/TheRandini/media/IMG_3573.jpg.html">[img">http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq301/TheRandini/IMG_3573.jpg[/img">
    [url=http://s458.photobucket.com/user/TheRandini/media/IMG_3566.jpg.html">[img">http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq301/TheRandini/IMG_3566.jpg[/img">

    Still cutting at .150" but used groomers! Big Mistake!!!!
    [url=http://s458.photobucket.com/user/TheRandini/media/IMG_3600.jpg.html">[img">http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq301/TheRandini/IMG_3600.jpg[/img">

    Looks like I need to verticut again and then maybe topdress heavy in order to get the leaf tissue to come back in. Thank god it is not all of my greens. I only have three this bad.
    [url=http://s458.photobucket.com/user/TheRandini/media/IMG_3601.jpg.html">[img">http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq301/TheRandini/IMG_3601.jpg[/img">



  2. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    9/19/2014 5:09 AM
    Contamination.



  3. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/19/2014 9:09 AM
    I am going to go with contamination on the top pic. I have seen the thatch associated with Tifeagle become inches thick with the consistency of cork. Ultra-dwarfs are not the answer for highly used lower budget courses in my opinion. We never had any trouble getting "10" out of Tifdwarf.



  4. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    9/19/2014 10:09 AM
    Now after seeing the photos, I'd say excessive grain. Try a circle veritcut followed by a circle mowing. May be too late in the year for it though. It's pretty aggressive.



  5. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    9/19/2014 2:09 PM
    Contamination/Mutation. Watch your N input. Do a backtrack mow after verticutting. It's gonna scalp. Nature of the beast.



  6. Anthony Nysse
    Anthony Nysse avatar
    1 posts
    9/20/2014 3:09 AM
    Contamination.



  7. Mike Hundley
    Mike Hundley avatar
    0 posts
    9/20/2014 1:09 PM
    Lightly verticut once a week, groomer brushes, light topdress, growth regulator. Gotta be careful being too aggressive this late. Once 1st frost hits, it will be fast regardless of mowing height.



  8. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    9/22/2014 6:09 AM
    Keith Lamb said: Contamination/Mutation. Watch your N input. Do a backtrack mow after verticutting. It's gonna scalp. Nature of the beast.


    Keith, that is the only way we verticut. I started that back in 2000 after we just replanted them. I know I do not verticut the often enough. since times got tight it has been extremely harder to find the manpower to get them done every other week. It is not so much the full day it takes to do them but the mess they make afterwards which takes so much time every morning after cutting to get them cleaned.

    This has been the worse I had seen them since we planted them. Looking back to this years program compared to other years the one thing that sticks out the most is the issue with our last two aerifications. the first one we got a total of 10" of rain from the night we completed the aerification until the weekend. My approaches were too wet to get a topdressor on. By the following week they were already closing over so we went ahead and dumped the sand on them any way. I think half of the sand got caught up in the canopy at that time and then on the following aeification I caved to pressure to put plenty of sand on them to fill the holes in (because they did not completely fill in from the first time) and we had them completely filled in three days but left a lot of sand in the canopy again. I think this is where the issue started with the plant stalks growing longer to get more light. I do not think the nitrogen rates caused this since I only average 1/2lb month. but I did just apply lime, gypsum and fungicide for a pretty heavy case of Fairy Ring. They seem to be as healthy as I have seen them in 5-7 years.

    I tell you this because real world experiences can be the best education as we all know.

    With fall so near I am looking at trying to verticut them deep one more time before it gets cold. It appears that I have a function every other week so I need to get it done at the beginning of the two weeks between functions in order to let them heal over. I will be using this weeks progress in healing to judge if this theory is sound.

    I am looking at possibly using a graden next spring to clear them out and get a fresh start.

    Thanks for all comments and please if you have a thought please bring it up. I can only go by what I see and what I have to work with but someone may have a suggestion that would work better.



  9. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    10/1/2014 6:10 AM
    I wanted to update this for anyone who may be following the thread.

    I verticut the worst greens heavy again first determining which direction the grain is growing and going into it. We did thing both directions like the last time then we checked the greens again for grain direction and did then against the grain a second time. Afterwords we brushed them with a drag mat first going with the grain then against it so any turf would be standing up. We then cut them at .180". The following morning I topdressed these greens heavy and drug them in after the dew dried out and cut them while we still had turf standing straight up from the dragging. This seemed to take a lot of the material out of the greens. now I just have to wait for them to grow back in.

    This is the most drastic thing I have had to do with these greens to date but doing it has opened my eyes to what can be done when neccessry. I will get a few photos up a little later for those interested.



  10. Robert Wagner
    Robert Wagner avatar
    2 posts
    10/2/2014 5:10 AM
    James-

    Thanks for the report and the update. Good luck with the process, and do post pics.

    Thanks,

    Wags



  11. Robert Wagner
    Robert Wagner avatar
    2 posts
    10/2/2014 5:10 AM
    James-

    Thanks for the report and the update. Good luck with the process, and do post pics.

    Thanks,

    Wags



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