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Toro Decoder vs. Rain Bird IC

6 posts
  1. Bryan Taylor
    Bryan Taylor avatar
    0 posts
    3/24/2013 9:03 PM
    Looking at a new irrigation system. Considering a 2 wire system so no controllers plus the ability to easily expand where needed for future development. Trying to get pros and cons of a Toro Decoder vs. Rain Bird IC. I just had a demo of the new Lynx central and was impressed on its improvement from Site Pro. For Lynx users how do you like it and any software issues? I have used Rain Bird in the past as well and preferred it over Site Pro, but Lynx has opened the door to consider Toro.
    Any comments are welcome on satellites vs. decoder type system and Toro vs. Rain Bird.

    Thank You,
    Bryan Taylor
    Makena Beach and Golf Resort



  2. Kyle Fick
    Kyle Fick avatar
    4 posts
    3/25/2013 4:03 PM
    I've worked with decoders the last two courses I've been at. 1 was a toro system installed in house, the other I inherited from a contractor that had some issues, and no longer exists. I really like the simplicity and adaptability they tend to provide. It's been really easy to "modify" the irrigation system with additions and subtractions of heads to become more efficient, and not having to run anything back to a satellite. Both of these systems are from around the 2003 era, so nothing as new as the Rainbird IC's. They look pretty neat to work with though.

    A couple things to consider that I've noticed when working on them after the fact.
    1) Quality control with wiring detail is pretty important. Any shoddy splices, redundant tie-ins to main trunk-lines, and poor detail to decoder location if multiple valves are used per station makes trouble shooting a pain in the rear. Its a good idea to use a colored snap ring on decoder location if you have multiple valves on each address. having each hole/zone only connected electrically at one location is so much nicer when you might have to start to backtrack if and when a ground fault occurs.
    2) If using multiple address packs, try as much as you can to get them closer to the complex they will be rather than running the solenoid wires over an extensive length. Use LARGE valve boxes to put these multi-packs in. There's nothing worse than not being able to get your hands and face in a location to see and work.
    3) Don't skimp on surge protectors and ground rods, and know where they are. Our course is pretty unmarked unfortunately, for some odd reason. They are usually a great spot to check when wiring issues arise. I don't remember installation details, but they are usually required every so many feet of wire.
    4) This goes without saying, but leave a good amount of maxi cable at each location. Sheathing is bad enough to strip without hitting wires, especially if not at eye level.
    5) Bye a good locator with fault finder right away. We use a Dynatel 3373 from 3M, and its great for trouble shooting. A little clamp style milliamp meter as well. Practice with them as you are connecting to your central to read milliamp draws vs. what each hole should have given by the normal draw at rest. A simple spread sheet will help when the central starts to spike.

    I've got 8 years with our Nimbus II system, and the abilities to trouble shoot from the central are great. with proper installation technique, and two capable dudes on radios, a giant ground fault that can shut down the central is found relatively easily.

    Probably a little dumbeyed down, but keep it simple, and they can perform very well. With the expansion benefits you already mentioned.



  3. James Prucnal
    James Prucnal avatar
    0 posts
    3/28/2013 5:03 PM
    Ask Toro for a list of happy GDC users. That list will be rather short.



  4. Brian Powell
    Brian Powell avatar
    0 posts
    4/1/2013 9:04 AM
    Actually Decoder irrigation has been around for about 40 years. Its actually very old, and kudos for Rainbird re-releasing it and branding it "new." Toro also has a system they sell and you've mentioned to offer a direct competitor.

    The Lynx system is a tremendous upgrade to OSMAC with sensor integration and programing thats very easy and quick to utilize. The ability to bring in a map of your golf course (GPS) or make your own by importation is also straightforward and is something you can do in a long day with a google earth imported picture if you so desire. After building the map, you can "select" part of the "picture" and manually irrigate items inside if you want. Very impressive indeed. If you use Lynx Mobile the ability to irrigate with your smartphone is also a nice plus.

    One item you didn't mention is the irrigation heads themselves. Toro's 800 series heads have a scheduling coefficient of about 1.3 - the best Rainbird heads as far as I know are about 1.6-1.7. What this means is to apply hypothetically 1" of water everywhere under that head, the toro requires 1.3" in some places. The Rainbird = 1.6" in some places. I'd hardly want a head thats so sloppy myself as it is applying about an extra 20% as Rainbirds would need. That means more dry and more wet spots under that single head and an irrigation controller can't alter what a single head does under that single head. Obviously installation matters as well, but the days of Rainbird and Toro being similar in irrigation application efficiency are gone until Rainbird releases new technology.

    The Lynx system has been wonderful at our facility where a dry fast playing surface are important and the ability to meter water is equally important. I wouldn't skimp on the installer as regardless of whom you pick a poor installer can make both products look bad.

    Best wishes



  5. Michael Brownlee
    Michael Brownlee avatar
    0 posts
    4/2/2013 8:04 AM
    We have just finished installing a Rain Bird IC system and I'm very pleased so far. Decoders have been around for a while, long enough for toro to never mention theirs during the bidding of this job. There are enough new elements to the IC system to consider it "New" or at least new to rainbird as a company. We had a contractor pull all the wire and my guys installed all the heads and did all the wire splices. I feel it worked out very well having our english speaking employees that are going to be here for years to come accountable for all the wire splices. Upon start up the system recognized all 540 heads, about 1,200 splices. The biggest upside to IC system is the ability to expand it. We are also running the system on Ipads with no issues. For a more indepth conversation riddled with hitech contractor speak call Brian Burns at Keeling company. 865-755-2290



  6. Troy Thompson
    Troy Thompson avatar
    0 posts
    4/5/2013 10:04 AM
    I have an IC system. If your course is being built where you have NO burrowing rodents then go for it. The system is easy to use and as mentioned above the trouble shooting software Rain Bird has is the best. They do have some issues I want to point out. They are expensive to replace. The module alone is over 100.00. If you do not run your system for 4 week you will have a lot of stuck heads the first time you turn it back on. This has something to do with the plunger in the new IC module. Rain Bird corporate has been great to work with.

    I have no experience with the comparable Toro system.

    Troy Thompson



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