TifEagle Mowing Heights Cancel The title field is required!

1. Tyler Broderick

   

   2 posts
   
   9/3/2013 11:09 AM

   I was just curious to know how low other supers mow their TifEagle greens. I am in Arizona and I use triplexes during the summer months due to lack of man power. I walk mow October through April on my overseed. I have gone back and forth a few times this summer with the heights of my cut. Currently my triplexes are set at .080 and things look great. The surface looks good, roots look long and happy. I have been as low as .070 and that seems to be the point where it looks too stressed to handle. I figure if I was walk mowing over the summer I'd have them set at .120 or so because my walk mowers have a lot more weight than my triplex reels. Just curious to see what some others are doing.
   
   
   Tyler

   
   
   
   
2. Joshua Kelley

   

   0 posts
   
   9/9/2013 7:09 PM

   .135 year a round in Orlando, FL. Walk mow year around and double cut 3-5 times per week and roll 3-5x per week. Speeds range from 10' in the summer to 13' in the winter. Speed I contribute to not applying any liquid nitrogen, which helps keep the plant from becoming puffy.
   
   Josh Kelley
   The Ritz-Carlton Golf Club, Orlando

   
   
   
   
3. Townsend Carole

   
   9/14/2013 4:09 PM

   How hard is it to stop the ball on your greens?
   
   I am in North Florida. We are at .120 during growing months, up and down around aerifications, .130 during winter months.
   Previously I was at a course in central Florida that walk mowed year round and kept them around .100", with an exception for a large tournament where we lowered them to .085", and not for long. We consistently rolled 10.5-11.5 at .100"-.110". Our membership was happy with that. I don't see a need to have them any lower, in my opinion. Just adding stress.
   
   On another note, we fertigate with a liquid urea sulfate in winter months that keeps the greens green, among other sciency thing it does. We have no need to overseed.

   
   
   
   
4. Wahlin Scott B

   
   9/15/2013 11:09 AM

   I really need to visit some of these courses that are rolling 12. I had an old pro at one club complain so continuously about green speed that we got them to 10. My understanding is that a ball will not stop rolling at 10 on a 3% slope. Members were literally putting balls that were on the green in regulation into adjacent water hazards. I only toured the golf course early in the morning and late in the day. I could not take the members yelling at me and shaking their fists anymore.

   
   
   
   
5. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   9/16/2013 6:09 AM

   Taking from Scott's post, how much fun is it playing when greens are rolling that quick? Especially for the masses? Could some of this be our participation problem? Maybe this discussion is for another thread.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
6. James Smith

   

   112 posts
   
   9/16/2013 7:09 AM

   I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
   
   Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have. I learned this late one summer when my bedknives where puching the turf due to the thickness and could only cut them down to .150" but every member was telling me how fast they rolled. I have learned to adjust my HOC to the density of my turf now and during the hot summer they get really thick and do not like verticutting (takes much longer to heal over). So I learned to just roll with it.

   
   
   
   
7. Anthony Nysse

   

   1 posts
   
   9/16/2013 11:09 AM

   James Smith said: I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
   
   Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have.

   
   
   Thicker turf is more resistant, less ball roll. Thicker turf does not equal faster greens. We verticut to thin out the canopy.

   
   
   
   
8. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   9/16/2013 12:09 PM

   Anthony Nysse said:

   James Smith said: I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
   
   Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have.

   
   
   Thicker turf is more resistant, less ball roll. Thicker turf does not equal faster greens. We verticut to thin out the canopy.

   
   
   We are living proof of that Tony, we have so much grass on our greens it's awful. we mow at .120 roll three times a week, hit them with very high rates of primo, up and back verticut weekly, lightly sand weekly all in an effort to increase speed… today they rolled a...wait for it...wait for it...8!!! I can't get them thinned down enough to speed them up... 6" of organic buildup has contributed to soft, fertile profile with fat lazy plants on top...
   We don't apply any "foliar" N (read: no N sits on the leaf) and apply about .3lbs of N every 2-3 weeks…. Greater surface area (more dense turf) greater resistance…. If only all my plants stood completely erect and the ball rolled on just the tips…hmmm

   
   
   
   
9. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   9/16/2013 12:09 PM

   Curtis Nickerson said:

   Anthony Nysse said:

   James Smith said: I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
   
   Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have.

   
   
   Thicker turf is more resistant, less ball roll. Thicker turf does not equal faster greens. We verticut to thin out the canopy.

   
   
   We are living proof of that Tony, we have so much grass on our greens it's awful. we mow at .120 roll three times a week, hit them with very high rates of primo, up and back verticut weekly, lightly sand weekly all in an effort to increase speed… today they rolled a...wait for it...wait for it...8!!! I can't get them thinned down enough to speed them up... 6" of organic buildup has contributed to soft, fertile profile with fat lazy plants on top...
   We don't apply any "foliar" N (read: no N sits on the leaf) and apply about .3lbs of N every 2-3 weeks…. Greater surface area (more dense turf) greater resistance…. If only all my plants stood completely erect and the ball rolled on just the tips…hmmm

   
   
   
   Is that in m or per thousand?
   just checking?

   
   
   
   
10. Curtis Nickerson

    

    0 posts
    
    9/16/2013 3:09 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Curtis Nickerson said:

    Anthony Nysse said:

    James Smith said: I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
    
    Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have.

    
    
    Thicker turf is more resistant, less ball roll. Thicker turf does not equal faster greens. We verticut to thin out the canopy.

    
    
    We are living proof of that Tony, we have so much grass on our greens it's awful. we mow at .120 roll three times a week, hit them with very high rates of primo, up and back verticut weekly, lightly sand weekly all in an effort to increase speed… today they rolled a...wait for it...wait for it...8!!! I can't get them thinned down enough to speed them up... 6" of organic buildup has contributed to soft, fertile profile with fat lazy plants on top...
    We don't apply any "foliar" N (read: no N sits on the leaf) and apply about .3lbs of N every 2-3 weeks…. Greater surface area (more dense turf) greater resistance…. If only all my plants stood completely erect and the ball rolled on just the tips…hmmm

    
    
    
    Is that in m or per thousand?
    just checking?

    
    
    Steve, sorry its per/1000....

    
    
    
    
11. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    9/16/2013 3:09 PM

    Curtis Nickerson said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said:

    Curtis Nickerson said:

    Anthony Nysse said:

    James Smith said: I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
    
    Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have.

    
    
    Thicker turf is more resistant, less ball roll. Thicker turf does not equal faster greens. We verticut to thin out the canopy.

    
    
    We are living proof of that Tony, we have so much grass on our greens it's awful. we mow at .120 roll three times a week, hit them with very high rates of primo, up and back verticut weekly, lightly sand weekly all in an effort to increase speed… today they rolled a...wait for it...wait for it...8!!! I can't get them thinned down enough to speed them up... 6" of organic buildup has contributed to soft, fertile profile with fat lazy plants on top...
    We don't apply any "foliar" N (read: no N sits on the leaf) and apply about .3lbs of N every 2-3 weeks…. Greater surface area (more dense turf) greater resistance…. If only all my plants stood completely erect and the ball rolled on just the tips…hmmm

    
    
    
    Is that in m or per thousand?
    just checking?

    
    
    Steve, sorry its per/1000....

    
    
    That's per thousand m, right?

    
    
    
    
12. Graham Kornmeyer

    

    0 posts
    
    9/17/2013 7:09 PM

    I haven't applied Nitrogen to the any greens surface since June at aerification, I also use a product called Radiate from Loveland, it acts as a PGR at high rates and when used in conjunction with Primo produces extremely small leaf blades, check it out if you need to increase greens speed, the protocol is .5 oz/M, twice on ultradwarfs, it has worked without isssue at my last two golf courses. Also Ferrous Sulfate...
    
    

    Curtis Nickerson said:

    Anthony Nysse said:

    James Smith said: I average .130" from spring through summer then .150" from fall through winter.
    
    Do not confuse mowing heights of cut with green speed though. the thicker the turf the faster it will roll no matter what HOC you have.

    
    
    Thicker turf is more resistant, less ball roll. Thicker turf does not equal faster greens. We verticut to thin out the canopy.

    
    
    We are living proof of that Tony, we have so much grass on our greens it's awful. we mow at .120 roll three times a week, hit them with very high rates of primo, up and back verticut weekly, lightly sand weekly all in an effort to increase speed… today they rolled a...wait for it...wait for it...8!!! I can't get them thinned down enough to speed them up... 6" of organic buildup has contributed to soft, fertile profile with fat lazy plants on top...
    We don't apply any "foliar" N (read: no N sits on the leaf) and apply about .3lbs of N every 2-3 weeks…. Greater surface area (more dense turf) greater resistance…. If only all my plants stood completely erect and the ball rolled on just the tips…hmmm

    
    
    
    
13. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    9/17/2013 7:09 PM

    I think there are soo many different methods and techniques out there, you really need to just play with it yourself and see what works. for instance, TifDwarf and TifEagle treated exactly the same. Up until two weeks ago, our last granular N was May 28th. 5oz/ac of Primo weekly with roughly .15#N/m/wk. .130" at first, then .120" towards the last half of summer, triplex with Wiehle rollers. TifDwarf rolled a consistent 10, TifEagle a consistent 11. All summer. No extra grooming, verticutting, or top dressing. Not that we're lazy, just didn't feel we needed it. We reached our goal with minimum inputs. Only downside is the off types and fairy ring were outrageously visible all summer, but never created a putting issue.

    
    
    
    
14. Graham Kornmeyer

    

    0 posts
    
    9/17/2013 7:09 PM

    Good point, I think the key takeaways are minimal chemical and fertilizer inputs and producing better greens though, I'm not sure how we all got on routine Nitrogen applications but from my findings are hindering what we are all after, unless density or regrowth is needed of course.
    
    

    Andy Jorgensen said: I think there are soo many different methods and techniques out there, you really need to just play with it yourself and see what works. for instance, TifDwarf and TifEagle treated exactly the same. Up until two weeks ago, our last granular N was May 28th. 5oz/ac of Primo weekly with roughly .15#N/m/wk. .130" at first, then .120" towards the last half of summer, triplex with Wiehle rollers. TifDwarf rolled a consistent 10, TifEagle a consistent 11. All summer. No extra grooming, verticutting, or top dressing. Not that we're lazy, just didn't feel we needed it. We reached our goal with minimum inputs. Only downside is the off types and fairy ring were outrageously visible all summer, but never created a putting issue.

    
    
    
    
15. Anthony Nysse

    

    1 posts
    
    9/18/2013 5:09 AM

    Personally, I think that chemicals play a large roll in the success of tifeagle. We spray Daconil or Fore monthly, 3336 in Aug and September and usually a systemic the other months. Keeping the N low is keep. We spray about .04#N a week with minors. (Floratine) 2, .5# granular apps at aerification for recovery with primo 3-4oz/acre weekly.
    
    We spray weekly and when the greens are starting to lose their color on the 6th day, we know our N is just about right. I'm not sure if you can keep the N lower enough with Tifeagle.

    
    
    
    
16. Jennings Dustin T

    
    9/18/2013 6:09 AM

    Tyler Broderick said: I was just curious to know how low other supers mow their TifEagle greens. I am in Arizona and I use triplexes during the summer months due to lack of man power. I walk mow October through April on my overseed. I have gone back and forth a few times this summer with the heights of my cut. Currently my triplexes are set at .080 and things look great. The surface looks good, roots look long and happy. I have been as low as .070 and that seems to be the point where it looks too stressed to handle. I figure if I was walk mowing over the summer I'd have them set at .120 or so because my walk mowers have a lot more weight than my triplex reels. Just curious to see what some others are doing.
    
    
    Tyler

    
    
    
    0.070? really? I've heard of greens putting like glass...man those golfers must like a good challenge. Also i wasn't aware that bedknives designed to cut that low even existed...

    
    
    
    
17. Tyler Broderick

    

    2 posts
    
    9/18/2013 6:09 AM

    Dustin T Jennings said:

    Tyler Broderick said: I was just curious to know how low other supers mow their TifEagle greens. I am in Arizona and I use triplexes during the summer months due to lack of man power. I walk mow October through April on my overseed. I have gone back and forth a few times this summer with the heights of my cut. Currently my triplexes are set at .080 and things look great. The surface looks good, roots look long and happy. I have been as low as .070 and that seems to be the point where it looks too stressed to handle. I figure if I was walk mowing over the summer I'd have them set at .120 or so because my walk mowers have a lot more weight than my triplex reels. Just curious to see what some others are doing.
    
    
    Tyler

    
    
    
    0.070? really? I've heard of greens putting like glass...man those golfers must like a good challenge. Also i wasn't aware that bedknives designed to cut that low even existed...

    
    
    
    The thing is, at .07 or .08, they aren't fast. I have consitantly low to average green speeds. THey want to roll an 8-8.5 and I have to really work to get to 10. The thing about mowing low is that it appears that it keeps them from getting fluffy. Also, I am talking about triplex heights. When we do walk mow we never go below .115. And the tournment bedknives that i constantly replace go that low.

    
    
    
    
18. Anthony Nysse

    

    1 posts
    
    9/18/2013 7:09 AM

    Dustin T Jennings said:

    Tyler Broderick said: I was just curious to know how low other supers mow their TifEagle greens. I am in Arizona and I use triplexes during the summer months due to lack of man power. I walk mow October through April on my overseed. I have gone back and forth a few times this summer with the heights of my cut. Currently my triplexes are set at .080 and things look great. The surface looks good, roots look long and happy. I have been as low as .070 and that seems to be the point where it looks too stressed to handle. I figure if I was walk mowing over the summer I'd have them set at .120 or so because my walk mowers have a lot more weight than my triplex reels. Just curious to see what some others are doing.
    
    
    Tyler

    
    
    
    0.070? really? I've heard of greens putting like glass...man those golfers must like a good challenge. Also i wasn't aware that bedknives designed to cut that low even existed...

    
    
    Triplex reels will always have to be set lower than a walk mower, just like a Toro 1000 has to be set higher than a flex. The down pressure and weight of the reel really dictates the HOC. I would think that that a triplex set at .080 would be in the .110 range of a walker. A 14 blade reels can cut higher and get a better cut, also. Apples to Oranges.
    Before aerification one year, we got down to .065" with a flex just to see where our scalp point was. The micro bedknives with the extension can handle the lowest of cuts. Certainly never saw the need to be that low other than ego.