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Thatch layer out of control

15 posts
  1. Taylor Stephen K
    Taylor Stephen K avatar
    9/17/2011 3:09 PM
    I have just been put in charge of recovering greens that have a 5 or 6 inch layer of thatch-planning on aerifying and vertical mowing as soon as the golf schedule will allow-need to deep tine as well as I'm afraid the shallow coreing won"t get past the thatch layer-Any more suggestions?

    Buryed in thatch in Kentucky



  2. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    9/17/2011 4:09 PM
    Normal verticutting won't achieve what you are looking for. Aerify as deep as possible with the largest tine possible and as often as possible. You might even want to consider double aerifying once or twice. Basically, go through the normal process of aerifying the greens, topdress, then aerify and topdress again the same day.

    A USGA article from Todd Lowe states the process:

    "An innovative technique to improve putting green playability without sacrificing turf health is to double-core aerate. Double aeration includes coring the greens, removing plugs, backfilling holes with sand, and then performing this same operation in a slightly different direction the next day. Large diameter tines (3/4-inch) are often used with this operation to increase sand incorporation into the rootzone and to dilute organic matter. When large tines are used, putting greens generally require only two double corings each summer.

    Double aeration can significantly reduce the number of closings for core aeration. Courses that normally close three or more times each summer can reduce to twice each summer with double aeration when large tines are used. Also, it allows the golf course to be open throughout most of May, a time when many courses allow reciprocal play.

    The downside to double aeration is that it just takes more time (10 to 14 days) to recover. Many golf course superintendents take advantage of the closure by performing other necessary practices like cultivation (verticutting, scalping, aeration) of tees, fairways and roughs, or additional projects like tree pruning and drainage/irrigation improvements in the absence of golfers. Summer months are slow for most Florida golf courses, and closure is more acceptable at this time of year, especially when it improves playability and reduces the number of aerations."

    Full text can be read here: http://www.usga.org/course_care/regional_updates/regional_reports/florida/The-One-Two-Punch-For-Putting-Greens---May-2011/



  3. Ryan Sears
    Ryan Sears avatar
    1 posts
    9/18/2011 4:09 PM
    Check out JRM catalog and find the longest tines possible to fit your aerator. We found 6"x1/2" side ejects that are meant for a deep tine machine, and they actually fit our pro core 648. This helps us get depth plus tight spacing with the quad blocks.
    We use the scarifier cassettes that fit in out verticutter units. A double pass with them after holes are punched and filled will only remove more thatch.
    Then, whenever possible we punch greens with 1/4" side eject tines on 1.5" centers, blow cores off, topdress and roll - golfers wont hardly know anything happend and you have made a big difference.
    According to ISTRC, a green produces 20% thatch every year so its important obviously to remove more than that annually to gain any ground at all.
    This is my two cents worth - hope this helps!



  4. James Rauhuff
    James Rauhuff avatar
    0 posts
    9/19/2011 5:09 AM
    There have been a few studies done at The University of Tennessee that show it is more effective to use the quad tine block with 1/2'' tines, in two directions, than one single aerification with larger tines. You still clean off cores, then topdress as the others are saying, but the key is to do this multiple times a year.



  5. White Robert G
    White Robert G avatar
    9/19/2011 11:09 AM
    Three things come to mind immediately...aerify, aerify, aerify. Good luck!



  6. Richard Lavine
    Richard Lavine avatar
    3 posts
    9/19/2011 7:09 PM
    I consulted a number of years ago at a retirement home that had two putting greens that were cared for by a local landscape management company. Apparently nothing other than mowing had been done for a number of years on what appeared to be Penncross bent. They asked me about some serious scalping issues. The greens appeared very soft and spongy. When I cut a triangle shape out of the scalped area, I saw at least three inches of mat and thatch. I squeezed it and ounces of water came out.

    I presented them with two options. #1 was to alternate monthly heavy aerification and topdressing, one green, then the other, probably to go on for at least three or four cycles. #2 option was to take a sod cutter to the thatch layer, removing the mat down to the sand layer. Much of the bent would come back and they could seed more bent in for what I figured to be a six to eight week recovery. When this green recovered adequately, the other green should be done.

    I really think that the #2 option would suit your situation best. Enlist the aid of a consultant, or the USGA to help you sell some program like this. Anything short of this would likely take years, if ever to really remedy your situation. Good Luck.



  7. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    9/20/2011 9:09 AM
    franzt said: I have just been put in charge of recovering greens that have a 5 or 6 inch layer of thatch-planning on aerifying and vertical mowing as soon as the golf schedule will allow-need to deep tine as well as I'm afraid the shallow coreing won"t get past the thatch layer-Any more suggestions?

    Buryed in thatch in Kentucky


    Check out the "Planet Air Aerator" you can google it....It's Bad A## and will take care of deep thatch with NO disruption to the golfers



  8. Troy Thompson
    Troy Thompson avatar
    0 posts
    9/21/2011 10:09 AM
    I also have taken a course over with a thatch problem. We all agree aerification is the key. Just keep in mind the type of sand you are going to topdress with. We have found a larger sand partial in the holes helps reduce thatch better because the soil breathes better therefore helps breakdown the thatch through normal biological processes. Then through the season a finer sand to improve roll.

    He also have found the amount of verti-cutting required impacted the golfers too much. If you do not have groomers, get some.

    Keep in mind preventative fungicides for fairy ring during your first summer. It seems once you disturb that layer if they did not have problems before, they start.

    Troy Thompson



  9. Baker Daniel
    Baker Daniel avatar
    9/21/2011 2:09 PM
    I'd throw everything at it you can if you really have 5" of thatch. I'd think Graden, sand, 1 1/2" cores, sand, thatch "eating" products, sand and then I'd throw the fairway verticutter on it for good measure.

    I have put the fairway yverticutter (First Products VC 60) on the greens and loved the results when I was going after thatch. Also, I have never used the thatch "eaters" before and have heard mixed results. I'd ask around and see if you can find someone who has a recommendation.



  10. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    9/22/2011 1:09 PM
    richard said: I consulted a number of years ago at a retirement home that had two putting greens that were cared for by a local landscape management company. Apparently nothing other than mowing had been done for a number of years on what appeared to be Penncross bent. They asked me about some serious scalping issues. The greens appeared very soft and spongy. When I cut a triangle shape out of the scalped area, I saw at least three inches of mat and thatch. I squeezed it and ounces of water came out.

    I presented them with two options. #1 was to alternate monthly heavy aerification and topdressing, one green, then the other, probably to go on for at least three or four cycles. #2 option was to take a sod cutter to the thatch layer, removing the mat down to the sand layer. Much of the bent would come back and they could seed more bent in for what I figured to be a six to eight week recovery. When this green recovered adequately, the other green should be done.

    I really think that the #2 option would suit your situation best. Enlist the aid of a consultant, or the USGA to help you sell some program like this. Anything short of this would likely take years, if ever to really remedy your situation. Good Luck.


    Maybe you could expand on this a little because from my point of view, if he has six inches of thatch and you cut it out then you have a six inch deep hole where your green is. how can you let that grow back but not be able to putt from the collar onto the green with a six inch drop off? on the other hand though at least shots hit too hard wont roll off the back of the green!

    If I was stuck with the task of getting rid of the thatch without rebuilding the greens I would graden verticutt as deep and heavy as possible first with a heavy dose of topdressing. I would then get on a double aerification program three to four times per year. I would also add in very small shallow tine aerifications as much as possible to help get oxygen into the layer which will help it break down as well as help the toxic gasses escape. I would manage my fertility as low as possible while still keeping my greens in as good of shape as possible. I would also flood my greens out whenever I aerified in order to force more oxygen to the root system and flush out any other toxins.

    but that is just me and I deal with TifEagle Greens in the south.



  11. Jason Knuutila
    Jason Knuutila avatar
    0 posts
    9/22/2011 8:09 PM
    I just used ISTRC soil profile report for the first time. It is expensive, but will be a great baseline and will recommend a specific program to speed up the renovation process. Wish i would have used them 6 years ago. This will put the science with the art and justify your program to improve conditions to your superiors.



  12. Richard Lavine
    Richard Lavine avatar
    3 posts
    9/23/2011 11:09 AM
    Randini,
    If you think about it, the collar would have thatched up to whatever the green level had become, so to do this correctly, the collar would have to be shaved down to soil level as well. Why would you [i]not[i] want to remove this thatch as well.
    I really think this approach is a quicker and more thourough approach than multiple aerifications. I think I calculated years ago that with the old Ryan aerators and 5/8" tines we only removed 2% of the surface area per aerification cycle. I know this is a tougher job to sell to a membership, but does one really want to go through years of heavy aerification to someday achieve firm tight greens? If the greens mix is good, why not simply remove the problem area and start anew?



  13. James Gray
    James Gray avatar
    1 posts
    9/26/2011 10:09 PM
    $550 for ISTRC nowadays



  14. Steven Chernosky
    Steven Chernosky avatar
    4 posts
    9/28/2011 6:09 AM
    Floratine's Thatchbuster coupled with an aggressive aerification and verticutting routine helped us get thatch under control on TifEagle greens that had not been aerified in over 2 years.



  15. Matthew Weaver
    Matthew Weaver avatar
    0 posts
    9/28/2011 9:09 AM
    I am not a big floratine person but have used the thatch buster with success. I also believe weekly spiking is important to get microbes to help you out, I like to think of it like a big compost pile. And without a doubt aerify, topdress remove anyway you can as often as possible.



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