Reducing maintained turf areas Cancel The title field is required!

1. Bobby Jaeger

   

   0 posts
   
   10/12/2012 12:10 PM

   I am looking to establish native fescues in numerous areas of the golf course. This is of course to reduce irrigation, maintenance to mow it, and for buffer areas between water ways. What do you think would be the best approach? Completely taking out areas with a sod cutter, then seeding into that, my concern for this approach is it would look quite unsightly until the naive grasses were established, and the possibility of weeds to take over would be higher. Or do you think I could over seed into the blue/rye mix with the native fescues, and just cut off mowing and reduce irrigation. Any input would help. My course is in a highly sensitive environment, and any reduction in turf would be great for PR and I think would give the course a much more natural look.
   
   Thanks in advance,
   
   Bobby Jaeger
   Superintendent
   Lake Tahoe Golf Course

   
   
   
   
2. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   10/12/2012 1:10 PM

   Personally I have a distain for overgrown blue and rye. It looks terrible, IMO, and it is all but impossible to play out of if a golf ball comes to rest in the overgrown area. The fescue without the blue/rye will have a much better appearance and playability. Just make sure you do not over do it with the fescue seeding rates.
   
   Can you round-up the area then seed fescue instead of sod cutting? As for weeds, you can mow the fescue at 4" the first year (establishment period) to keep the weeds in check then spray. About 17 years ago we seeded acres of fescue area and our big concerns at the time were weeds and erosion during the establishment period. We ultimately seeded the fescue then seeded 1 lb/M annual rye. The annual rye germinated in a couple days to help stabilize the areas until the fescue germinated and established. We kept the native areas mown at 4" the first year and the rye died out leaving the fescue. The fescue areas looked great, IMO, year two and on.

   
   
   
   
3. Justin VanLanduit

   

   0 posts
   
   10/12/2012 2:10 PM

   Clay,
   
   I just seeded a few areas here at my club. These were existing "no-mow" "native" areas, although it was just blue/rye left to grow. I wanted to transition to a fescue blend that would be more playable as well as carry a more aesthetic appeal. The mix's I used were recommended to me by the Tee2Green agronomist last fall during our greens regrassing projects. Pure Seed came out with some mixes that are RoundUp ready, some will tolerate up to 20oz RoundUp/Acre. I thought of doing it a few different ways but ended up killing areas off with 2 sprays of RoundUp prior. Did one, mowed down, then applied another application a few weeks later. Once that last application had sat for a week we went in with 5/8" hollow tines on my ProCores and pulled cores at 1.5" spacing in one direction then did another at a slight angle, although at 2.5" spacing. Once those dried we blasted through the area with a drag and bunker machine to knock dirt loose a bit. We then broadcast seed with a little start fert then used the sand pro to dimple in. We had germination basically in 8-10 days.
   Seeding into the existing turf was a thought and then just using RoundUp to kill off the blue/rye although I would imagine you need to let the new fescue get some durability before you start blasting with RoundUp. I'll probably just use herbicides or hand this first year and then start doing light RoundUp applications to maintain if need be.
   I'm excited to see if this stuff is really true, and I really hope I like it, cause how else will I get rid of it since I can't spray with RoundUp!
   Best of Luck,
   Justin

   
   
   
   
4. Fleegel Timothy

   
   10/12/2012 2:10 PM

   I remember seeing an article about this. It had various ways to establish native areas. I think it was in GCM. I'll do some looking and see what I can dig up.

   
   
   
   
5. Justin VanLanduit

   

   0 posts
   
   10/12/2012 3:10 PM

   Oops Clay that was supposed to be for Bobby, wasn't singling you out.

   
   
   
   
6. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   10/12/2012 5:10 PM

   Justin VanLanduit said: Oops Clay that was supposed to be for Bobby, wasn't singling you out.

   
   
   You can call me Ron or you can call me Don or you can call me John...

   
   
   
   
7. Stowe Brad

   
   10/13/2012 10:10 AM

   Another option if you have some fescue growing in it is Poast. It's an herbicide we've used to take out all grasses except the fine fescues. We had an old orchard that had some fescue and a bunch of other rye/blue/other and it would get really thick. We sprayed a few apps and the fescue is doing great it doesn't kill it all at once but really stunts it.

   
   
   
   
8. Brett Morris

   

   0 posts
   
   10/14/2012 1:10 PM

   There's a good blog on Oakland Hills which has been through the establishment of out of play fescue areas:
   
   http://ohccturf.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Fescue%20Area

   
   
   
   
9. Keith Fellenstein

   

   0 posts
   
   10/15/2012 10:10 AM

   Justin VanLanduit said: Clay,
   
   I just seeded a few areas here at my club. These were existing "no-mow" "native" areas, although it was just blue/rye left to grow. I wanted to transition to a fescue blend that would be more playable as well as carry a more aesthetic appeal. The mix's I used were recommended to me by the Tee2Green agronomist last fall during our greens regrassing projects. Pure Seed came out with some mixes that are RoundUp ready, some will tolerate up to 20oz RoundUp/Acre. I thought of doing it a few different ways but ended up killing areas off with 2 sprays of RoundUp prior. Did one, mowed down, then applied another application a few weeks later. Once that last application had sat for a week we went in with 5/8" hollow tines on my ProCores and pulled cores at 1.5" spacing in one direction then did another at a slight angle, although at 2.5" spacing. Once those dried we blasted through the area with a drag and bunker machine to knock dirt loose a bit. We then broadcast seed with a little start fert then used the sand pro to dimple in. We had germination basically in 8-10 days.
   Seeding into the existing turf was a thought and then just using RoundUp to kill off the blue/rye although I would imagine you need to let the new fescue get some durability before you start blasting with RoundUp. I'll probably just use herbicides or hand this first year and then start doing light RoundUp applications to maintain if need be.
   I'm excited to see if this stuff is really true, and I really hope I like it, cause how else will I get rid of it since I can't spray with RoundUp!
   Best of Luck,
   Justin

   
   
   I've followed a similiar process except I use solid tines...I feel the hollow tines bring up too many weed seeds. Have had fairly good success except anything that gets hit with irrigation. Weeds are a challenge in those areas after a few years. Try to design the areas at the limits of the irrigation you plan to keep using. Otherwise, it can be a lot more maintenance than planned.

   
   
   
   
10. Justin VanLanduit

    

    0 posts
    
    10/15/2012 11:10 AM

    Keith Fellenstein said:

    Justin VanLanduit said: Clay,
    
    I just seeded a few areas here at my club. These were existing "no-mow" "native" areas, although it was just blue/rye left to grow. I wanted to transition to a fescue blend that would be more playable as well as carry a more aesthetic appeal. The mix's I used were recommended to me by the Tee2Green agronomist last fall during our greens regrassing projects. Pure Seed came out with some mixes that are RoundUp ready, some will tolerate up to 20oz RoundUp/Acre. I thought of doing it a few different ways but ended up killing areas off with 2 sprays of RoundUp prior. Did one, mowed down, then applied another application a few weeks later. Once that last application had sat for a week we went in with 5/8" hollow tines on my ProCores and pulled cores at 1.5" spacing in one direction then did another at a slight angle, although at 2.5" spacing. Once those dried we blasted through the area with a drag and bunker machine to knock dirt loose a bit. We then broadcast seed with a little start fert then used the sand pro to dimple in. We had germination basically in 8-10 days.
    Seeding into the existing turf was a thought and then just using RoundUp to kill off the blue/rye although I would imagine you need to let the new fescue get some durability before you start blasting with RoundUp. I'll probably just use herbicides or hand this first year and then start doing light RoundUp applications to maintain if need be.
    I'm excited to see if this stuff is really true, and I really hope I like it, cause how else will I get rid of it since I can't spray with RoundUp!
    Best of Luck,
    Justin

    
    
    I've followed a similiar process except I use solid tines...I feel the hollow tines bring up too many weed seeds. Have had fairly good success except anything that gets hit with irrigation. Weeds are a challenge in those areas after a few years. Try to design the areas at the limits of the irrigation you plan to keep using. Otherwise, it can be a lot more maintenance than planned.

    
    
    Yeah, we've watered to get it to pop and grow a bit since then we've shut it down. Any irrigation heads in the vicinities will be dialed back to not touch these area, if not I'll probably just redesign the mowing lines. Thanks fro the input.