Redox vs. Floratine Cancel The title field is required!

1. Robinson Craig

   
   7/28/2011 2:07 PM

   Which products are better?

   
   
   
   
2. Baker Daniel

   
   7/28/2011 3:07 PM

   Answer this:
   
   Ford v. Chevy
   
   Which is better
   
   I put seven products in the tank on my greens mix and have the best greens I've had since I've been at this job. I use Redox, Floratine, Griggs, Green Industries, Ferromec, and Growth Products mixed together to give me exactly what I want. I have yet to have a mix issue even with my Ca, K and Phosphite products in the same tank. And yes, I use a spray buffer. They are worth $15/tank for peace of mind

   
   
   
   
3. Daryck Beetham

   

   2 posts
   
   7/28/2011 5:07 PM

   Danial
   
   Which products are you using from the four companies. I've been using floratine for four years. I'm trying to alleviate some of the products by filtering in some Griggs bro's maybe Redox and Geoponics. Not sure which rout to go! Thought about Astron, Per 4 Max, Protosyn, Floratine. Gary's green or Ultraplex, P-K plus from Griggs and Agriox, Penterra, Megamax from Geoponics. I think they are all good, however I'm in favor of the Floratine, Griggs do to the way they are chelated. IMO chelation as opposed to EDTA's

   
   
   
   
4. Sam Welch

   

   0 posts
   
   7/28/2011 8:07 PM

   I was 100% Floratine last year. I'm 95% Redox this year, with a little Floratine thrown in.
   
   I think I saw better results from the Redox in the Spring, got my bent going earlier. We've had two BRUTAL summers in Atlanta so I can't really differentiate between the two since mid-May, other than I thought my color was better with the Floratine (probably the Knife). Either way I'm in about the same shape I was in last summer, losing a good bit of bent.
   
   I do like that a 2.5 of a Redox liquid product weighs a ton and comes out like molasses vs. the watered down appearance of Floratine products, but that might not mean anything. Ultimately I'm leaning towards Redox being better pure fertilizer (N, P, K, micros, etc.) and Floratine being a great source of "biostimulants" (auxins, cytokinis, and GA) but it comes at a cost.

   
   
   
   
5. Letterman David M

   
   7/28/2011 9:07 PM

   craigr40 said: Which products are better?

   
   100% Floratine. I have done the math and it is cheaper than Griggs for the "program" I use. We base all our fertility on what the turf needs based on our soil test reports. I have never heard of Redox, so I can't give you an opinion. I have used Nutramax products, Plant Food, Regal, Helena, Ferromec, Soybean Based from Lesco, Growth Products and nothing works as well as the Floratine Power 23-0-0, Protysen, Knife plus, Perk-up, Phlex-man, Phlex-mag and Per-4-Max when we aerate greens. I use this every 2 weeks, from May 1- Oct 15. Best my 43 year push up greens have ever looked period.

   
   
   
   
6. Hardy Andrew

   
   7/29/2011 3:07 AM

   You diehard floratine guys are like members of a cult. Painting with a broad brush saying one product is better than others would be foolish. Each property, in fact each green site can have different wants and needs. I have in the past left certain greens until last and added small amounts of product to address the need of those greens. But to throw a broad statement out about one fertilizer being better than the rest is pretty ballsy. You have to use what works for you. Whether it be based on cost, appearance, sales and service and what you are looking to achieve. Floratine are good products but the salesman we used to have was a complete baffoon. Good product or not I certainly didn't want him on my property. I believe on never resting on your laurels and pushing your own beliefs. A Superintendent who rests on his practices may as well keep his resume up to date.

   
   
   
   
7. Baker Daniel

   
   7/29/2011 7:07 AM

   @Daryck - I'll send you a PM this afternoon with the whole sche-bang. It will take a bit to type out.
   
   @huff - Seven products is alot? The Director of Grounds I worked for previous had me put in 17. Yes 17. Most of those were various Floratine products along with some Primo, Sevin, and a fungicide.
   
   @kkisank - I think you have the right idea. If your not willing to evolve with your program and fit specific needs in specific areas and specific times of the year, your never going to truly excel at your profession. The "program" I am on now came from a year and a half of tinkering one way and the other but was based in a "full Floratine" program that I had used for years at my previous job where I had the money to burn on $1500 a week applications.
   
   I'm a big proponent of reading the label and understanding what's in the jug. That Power 23-0-0 is essentially a soluabilized N product. What are you paying per oz/1000 for that immediate pop that you can get from something as simple as Urea or Ammonium Sulfate in the tank? It becomes a little murky when you start talking biologicals and seaweed extracts, plant growth hormones and ammino acids. This is when your own best judgement of what works in your specific location comes in.
   
   I don't think I'll ever promote a single company ever agian after going through the different combinations I have used and seeing different results from different products.
   
   As a side note, this is all on Bermudagrass in South Texas mowed at .95 watered with effluent water without a drop of natural rainfall in months. If something works or doesnt work it shows quickly and I dont really have to worry about losing grass as much as the bentgrass guys do. That allowed me to tinker even more when it came to the soil products.

   
   
   
   
8. Dean Chase

   

   3 posts
   
   7/29/2011 9:07 AM

   I've used both and for me it's a no contest just on the packaging alone. The Redox powder is a pain to mix and is VERY dusty. It was significantly cheaper but it's gone up in price. I do 7-8 products per foliar spray and the Floratine goes into solution flawlessly. In 12 years I've never had one issue with it. I know exacty what it will do and how long it will last. My greens are still pure bent after 12 yers while the poa has encroached everywhere else.
   
   It might be pricey but for me it's worth it on greens.

   
   
   
   
9. Hardy Andrew

   
   7/29/2011 10:07 AM

   The N source for Floratine products has never been their strong suit. It was after having some straight N issues with the Floratine product where my program really started to evolve and take shape. I am using Plant Food, Earthworks, Griggs and Floratine products (we certainly don't have the choices that you have up here in Canada) based on what the plant is needing (soil and some tissue testing). I do supplement with granular apps in the shoulder seasons. I have a feeling my program will evolve again now that I have tried and loved the results from Civitas. People that stand still get walked right past.

   
   
   
   
10. Cecala Randal

    
    7/29/2011 3:07 PM

    You Floratine users, Do you find the Analync soluble vs extractable to be a valuable tool?

    
    
    
    
11. Letterman David M

    
    7/30/2011 6:07 AM

    kkisaok said: You diehard floratine guys are like members of a cult. Painting with a broad brush saying one product is better than others would be foolish. Each property, in fact each green site can have different wants and needs. I have in the past left certain greens until last and added small amounts of product to address the need of those greens. But to throw a broad statement out about one fertilizer being better than the rest is pretty ballsy. You have to use what works for you. Whether it be based on cost, appearance, sales and service and what you are looking to achieve. Floratine are good products but the salesman we used to have was a complete baffoon. Good product or not I certainly didn't want him on my property. I believe on never resting on your laurels and pushing your own beliefs. A Superintendent who rests on his practices may as well keep his resume up to date.

    
    
    Whoa, someone needs to calm down a bit. Bud, I can assure you that I am not part of any cult, nor do I rest on my "laurels" or "pushing my own beliefs". When someone asks "your opinion" on a Forum, then you give it to them. If you live in your own little world where everything you do is the best way and your not willing to change, then I guess some of the statements you made are valid. Our Floratine Rep was a Superintendent for 30 year at the likes of distinguished courses such as Doral and a TPC Venue. He is one of the most knowledgeable individuals I have met in this business. If you can read you will see that I have pretty much tried every product on the market, and my opinion is that it works best for our greens. What is "ballsy" would be calling someone "foolish" for having an opinion that isn't yours. My advice to you would be to take a chill pill and a couple days vacation, because you sound as if you are a little uptight. If you don't like "other" opinions, then don't be part of this forum. And yes, I do have big balls!

    
    
    
    
12. Letterman David M

    
    7/30/2011 6:07 AM

    deanchase said: I've used both and for me it's a no contest just on the packaging alone. The Redox powder is a pain to mix and is VERY dusty. It was significantly cheaper but it's gone up in price. I do 7-8 products per foliar spray and the Floratine goes into solution flawlessly. In 12 years I've never had one issue with it. I know exacty what it will do and how long it will last. My greens are still pure bent after 12 yers while the poa has encroached everywhere else.
    
    It might be pricey but for me it's worth it on greens.

    
    
    Ditto! I can just about set my watch by when I will need to spray my program again it is so predictable. Yes, you can save money by melting down "other" forms of Nitrogen, but Floratine products are buffered and won't change soil pH. I use the Floratine because it works! I don't like nor do I have the time to "tinker" with different witches brew's to see what works and what doesn't.

    
    
    
    
13. Letterman David M

    
    7/30/2011 6:07 AM

    randc said: You Floratine users, Do you find the Analync soluble vs extractable to be a valuable tool?

    
    
    Yes, that is what my program is based upon. Next season we will test again and tweak the program as needed. The Analync see what is available to the plant vs what is tied up in soil. Some of the products we spray helps the nutrients that aren't available become available to the plant.

    
    
    
    
14. Hardy Andrew

    
    7/30/2011 7:07 PM

    Ah Wolfman, you had to turn this into a personal who's balls are bigger issue. I was stating my opinion. My salesguy comes from the video game sales industry. So for him to compare to your rep to come in and try and sell me product would be a tough comparison. The fact I DID use Floratine for 10+ years and the lack of knowledge of my salesman allowed me to open my eyes to see there are benefits from other products (that's all I was trying to get across). Yes you are right I do need a couple of days off and I will be taking them Monday and Tuesday. So I won't be gracing you with my opinion for a few days on this OPEN forum. Don't miss me too much "Big Balls".

    
    
    
    
15. Letterman David M

    
    7/30/2011 8:07 PM

    kkisaok"]Ah Wolfman, you had to turn this into a personal who's balls are bigger issue. I was stating my opinion. My salesguy comes from the video game sales industry. So for him to compare to your rep to come in and try and sell me product would be a tough comparison. The fact I DID use Floratine for 10+ years and the lack of knowledge of my salesman allowed me to open my eyes to see there are benefits from other products (that's all I was trying to get across). Yes you are right I do need a couple of days off and I will be taking them Monday and Tuesday. So I won't be gracing you with my opinion for a few days on this OPEN forum. Don't miss me too much "Big Balls".[/q/uote]
    
    Enjoy your time off! I'm with you as to the benefit of other products. If everyone used Floratine, I couldn't afford to buy it (LOL). I was very skeptical of their products, even though I had used them during my tenure as spray technician (13 years ago) at Grand Father Golf and Country Club, in Newland, NC ranked in the top 100 in the nation. But, when our Floratine Rep came to town, we sat down together, talked over the options, sampled the greens, and built a program from the ground up. Opinions are great, I tell my Assistant to continue to have one, even though I don't listen to it much. Ha! Ha!

    
    
    
    
16. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    7/31/2011 7:07 AM

    I have a Floratine mouse pad. I can't say it is the best mouse pad I have ever used but it gets the job done. The Toro NSN mouse pad had a better no slip surface and to my way of thinking worked better.
    To each his own I always say

    
    
    
    
17. Cecala Randal

    
    7/31/2011 11:07 AM

    Has anyone tried doing half your greens with equal amounts of Fe, Mn, Ca, whatever it is and the other half with Floratine? The composition is out there if you know where to find it. Then you can see if it is worth the price difference.
    
    
    REGISTRANT: FLORATINE PRODUCTS GROUP
    Mailing Address 355 EAST SOUTH STREET
    Post Office Box
    City COLLIERVILLE
    State TN
    Postal Code 38017
    Telephone Number 901-853-2898
    Fax Number 901-221-1160
    
    PRODUCTS:
    Product Name
    0105-0002 ASTRON AUXILIARY NUTRIENT COMPOUND
    0105-0003 CALPHLEX SOIL AMENDMENT
    0105-0004 FG-20 TURF & ORNAMENTAL SPRAY 0-0-20
    0105-0005 IRON MAID 15-0-0 FOR SOD, TURFGRASS & ORNAMENTALS
    0105-0006 KNIFE AUXILIARY NUTRIENT COMPOUND 12-0-0
    0105-0007 LARGO 3000 FOR PROFESSIONAL SOD & TURF 12-0-0
    0105-0012 P-48 10-48-8 WATER SOLUBLE FERTILIZER CONCENTRATE
    0105-0013 PER "4" MAX AUXILIARY NUTRIENT COMPOUND 13-0-0
    0105-0014 PERK UP AUXILIARY NUTRIENT COMPOUND
    0105-0015 PHLEX-MAG TURF & ORNAMENTAL SPRAY
    0105-0016 PHLEX-MAN CHELATED COMPOUND FOR CORRECTING MANGANESE DEFICIENCY
    0105-0017 RENAISSANCE AUXILIARY NUTRIENT COMPOUND
    0105-0035 PK FIGHT 0-0-28
    0105-0038 POWER 0-22-28
    0105-0039 QUAD K 0-0-45
    0105-0040 DEFENSE - MAG
    0105-0041 DEFENSE - MAN
    0105-0042 POWER 4-4-16
    0105-0043 PROTESYN 6-2-3
    0105-0044 TRICAL 35-SP
    0105-0045 POWER 0-0-22
    0105-0046 POWER 23-0-0 + MO
    0105-0047 POWER 24-0-0 + MO
    0105-0048 KNIFE PLUS 12-0-0 + 6 FE

    
    
    
    
18. Hardy Andrew

    
    8/3/2011 4:08 AM

    When I switched off the Floratine program 4 years ago I was doing a trial with each of my 9's being treated with a different brand. One 9 was done with Griggs, one with Floratine and the 3rd with Plant Food. With no discernible difference in appearance or health of the turf I opted for a hybrid of the 3 companies. I still like using Floratine for Perk Up, Knife Plus and Per 4 Max (in the spring). With Griggs I use Gary's Green and Sili-Cal B. And Plant Food I use the 18-3-4 MK, Adams Earth and Healthy Start. I also use a company from Canada called Plant Science for my phosphite called EnFoss. So I have personally found what works for me, while cutting costs and improving plant health.
    
    That's whats worked for me but it was time consuming and initially did cost more to get to where I am now.