Maintenance Costs Cancel The title field is required!

1. Rick Elyea

   

   0 posts
   
   1/25/2012 10:01 PM

   I am assisting a architect and Supt in trying to convince Owner to do a blow up renovation. Owner is up to it but want to know how long it will take get his ROI. Owner is only wants us to supply maintence costs, not contruction cost of construction. Long story short has anyone figured a cost per acre for each area (greens, tees, fwys, roughs) for fuel, general labor, fungicides, herbicides, insecticides and water. Not sure if we have missed anything, if so chime in. Assistance is greatly appreciated.
   
   Rick

   
   
   
   
2. Wallace Jeffrey V

   
   1/26/2012 12:01 AM

   Rick Elyea said: I am assisting a architect and Supt in trying to convince Owner to do a blow up renovation. Owner is up to it but want to know how long it will take get his ROI. Owner is only wants us to supply maintence costs, not contruction cost of construction. Long story short has anyone figured a cost per acre for each area (greens, tees, fwys, roughs) for fuel, general labor, fungicides, herbicides, insecticides and water. Not sure if we have missed anything, if so chime in. Assistance is greatly appreciated.
   
   Rick

   
   
   Rick,
   
   Sorry, but your post is confusing. This is a "renovation", so I assume you already have historical maintenance costs. His concern regarding ROI should be focused entirely on the cost of renovation. Those would be "construction costs". Is the owner confused, or are you talking about adding another 18 holes?
   
   Then....I could see an increase in maintenance costs. But they will pale in comparison to the construction costs, whether keeping a course layout similar to the original, as he is looking at a complete renovation. And certainly if an expansion is being considered. Then he really needs to address the ROI.
   
   Please clarify.

   
   
   
   
3. Michael Vogt

   

   2 posts
   
   1/26/2012 7:01 AM

   Rick:
   
   Give me a call and I'll send you a spreadsheet that will give you all the cost you're speaking of once the parameters are inputted. (800) 365-2498.
   
   Best, Mike

   
   
   
   
4. Rodney Crow

   

   0 posts
   
   1/26/2012 7:01 AM

   Rick Elyea said: I am assisting a architect and Supt in trying to convince Owner to do a blow up renovation. Owner is up to it but want to know how long it will take get his ROI. Owner is only wants us to supply maintence costs, not contruction cost of construction. Long story short has anyone figured a cost per acre for each area (greens, tees, fwys, roughs) for fuel, general labor, fungicides, herbicides, insecticides and water. Not sure if we have missed anything, if so chime in. Assistance is greatly appreciated.
   
   Rick

   
   
   
   Rick,
   
   More clarification would be needed here. As you know, there are many factors that influence maintenance costs, so what numbers I produce on my golf course might not necessarily work for a superintendent at a course in any other part of the world. Also there are differences in maintenance expectations. Is the golf course a low-end budget course? a mid-budget course? a high-end private course? an ultra-exclusive private course? All of these expectations make a difference as well.

   
   
   
   
5. James Schmid

   

   1 posts
   
   1/26/2012 9:01 AM

   Rick Elyea said: I am assisting a architect and Supt in trying to convince Owner to do a blow up renovation. Owner is up to it but want to know how long it will take get his ROI. Owner is only wants us to supply maintence costs, not contruction cost of construction. Long story short has anyone figured a cost per acre for each area (greens, tees, fwys, roughs) for fuel, general labor, fungicides, herbicides, insecticides and water. Not sure if we have missed anything, if so chime in. Assistance is greatly appreciated.
   
   Rick

   
   
   
   This one is easy. In this market he will likely never see a return on his investment

   
   
   
   
6. Rick Elyea

   

   0 posts
   
   1/26/2012 10:01 AM

   Sorry for the confusion, this would be a renovation. Owner wants to know if he spends the money will maintenance costs be reduced, less fungicides, labor, fuel, etc. Current turf is a Heinze 57 of older varieties that are more susceptible to diseases, require more fertilizer and water. This is where the Owner has asked "If use newer varieties, will our costs go down? If so, how much?
   
   We know that newer varieties have better disease resistance. Which should mean less fungicides, less spray applications, saving fuel and labor costs. The Owner knows that the labor will be used somewhere else on the courses as there is always some little projects that can be done. This is what the Owner wants, to be able to have the projects that will enhance the course.
   
   Hope this information helps.
   
   Rick

   
   
   
   
7. Green Robert B

   
   1/26/2012 11:01 AM

   Hi Rick,
   
   I cannot quote any facility that has done a conversion by gas and grass or a more involved renovation that over a period of time has had a noteworthy ROI. Obviously, since labor is the biggest driver of costs, I have not seen a significant change under new turf demands. Fungicide savings may be a wash with newer preem or poa control apps. Fertilizer would be a wash. But, water could be a significant driver dependent on the area.
   Quality of product is the biggest winner but it does not necessarily bring more bodies into the door.

   
   
   
   
8. Homme David R

   
   1/26/2012 2:01 PM

   The only ROI left in golf is..........residential development. Now that sucks too these days.
   
   It's not a very good business anymore. This owner must have lots of extra money. JMO.
   
   Dave Homme
   Falls Resort

   
   
   
   
9. Rodney Crow

   

   0 posts
   
   1/26/2012 3:01 PM

   Want to know how to make a small fortune in the golf business???
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   V
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   Start with a LARGE fortune!!!!

   
   
   
   
10. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    1/26/2012 4:01 PM

    When we regrassed from old Tifway 328 push up greens to TifDwarf USGA greens a few years back, the same question was asked. I told them that quite honestly the maintenance costs will increase. This is due to the newer grass being able to be mowed shorter and also requiring more topdressing, fungicide and fertilizer versus the old 328 mowed at .250". In your case, yes, the newer varieties are more pest and drought resistant, but by what percentage? Skipping a $12,000 application each year, and saving $10,000 in electrical for the irrigation pump won't pay off a $250,000 renovation anytime soon, and when it does, the grass will be old technology and you'll be looking to regrass again.
    
    In my opinion, I'd find the other benefits of the renovation, and sell it that way. Sometimes updating the course turf and features is a matter of survival. Compare the courses features to the competition. Id' hate to say it, but golf a lot of time involves "keeping up with the Jones'" in order to survive.

    
    
    
    
11. Rockwell Brent S

    
    1/26/2012 8:01 PM

    I wouldn't think you will be able to count on much savings by switching to newer grasses. You'll just bew able to beat them up more but you'll have to up your inputs (topdressing,grooming,verticutting...) Or you'll feel like you're not maximizing the potential of the new investment

    
    
    
    
12. James Gray

    

    1 posts
    
    1/26/2012 11:01 PM

    Or better put, Keeping up with the Jorgensen's...