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Large area rotary mowers

24 posts
  1. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/19/2015 9:11 AM
    Looking to purchase two large area rotary mowers for 2016. Currently have two Toro 4000-D eleven foot four-inch units which have performed well for 13 years. Looking for phone numbers of courses who have either JD-1600 units, or Jacobson 311 units. Would prefer not to hash out details on the forum but if you care to leave comments please do so.

    Mark W. Lytle | GCSAA class A, Golf Course Superintendent
    City of Salina | 2500 E. Crawford St., Salina KS 67401-0736
    Office: 785-826-7455 | Cell: 785-452-5328
    mark.lytle@salina.org | http://www.salina-ks.gov



  2. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/19/2015 10:11 AM
    Looking to purchase two large area rotary mowers for 2016. Currently have two Toro 4000-D eleven foot four-inch units which have performed well for 13 years. Looking for phone numbers of courses who have either JD-1600 units, or Jacobson 311 units. Would prefer not to hash out details on the forum but if you care to leave comments please do so.

    Mark W. Lytle | GCSAA class A, Golf Course Superintendent
    City of Salina | 2500 E. Crawford St., Salina KS 67401-0736
    Office: 785-826-7455 | Cell: 785-452-5328
    mark.lytle@salina.org | http://www.salina-ks.govMark Lytle



  3. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/19/2015 11:11 AM
    We have the JD 1600's, 3 of them

    They were purchased and arrived in the fall of 2010, ours currently has 3803 hours on it. The things burn fuel like crazy, now I don't know if the Tier IV engines burn less, but we always burn over 2 gallons per hour even in mid summer when grass isn't heavy. Usually burn an average of 2.3 gallons per hour. We have an old 5111 with 6500+ hours and would only see it burn 2 gallons per hour in mid spring when the fescue is just growing wild.

    All 3 of our units have been back to the dealer for various fixes. One had the hydrostat lock up, ours and the other have had leaks around the hydrostat. We had to replace axle seals because they were rusted last winter (2959 hours), our dealer did that since our shop isn't really set up for it. They had to actually lift the front body off the transaxle to replace, labor alone was 10 times the cost of parts.. We have a leaking hydrostat again this season, our local dealer won't even work on our machines anymore, (they are more of a farm and home dealer, but was able to sell us the 1600 since it isn't just for golf.). Going back through our records it was in for warranty work, it has been to the shop for 3 other events.

    The one deck does get full of grass clippings due to how it discharges grass. We are very good about servicing it every 100 hours.

    One of our other courses is suppose to get theirs replaced, I think we will be fighting on the bid to avoid a 1600 even though they are cheaper. We had another course in our area get bids on all 3 and they called us about ours, I believe they were able to purchase the more expensive Toro or Jac because in the long run they would be cheaper to own.

    How many hours do you have on your Toro's?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  4. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/19/2015 11:11 AM
    Both units have 6,000 plus hours but they are tired. Fuel consumption was a big factor when making the decision to purchase them. Over the 13 years fuel consumption the average is 1.3 GPH. Rust and serviceability were problems with our JD fairway mowers. Is clipping dispersal an issue in wet conditions early morning? We have recycler decks on the 4000's and work well all season long. When I demoed the 1600 back when, productivity and quality of cut were also issues.

    Mark W. Lytle | GCSAA class A, Golf Course Superintendent
    City of Salina | 2500 E. Crawford St., Salina KS 67401-0736
    Office: 785-826-7455 | Cell: 785-452-5328
    mark.lytle@salina.org | http://www.salina-ks.govMark Lytle



  5. Michael Kriz
    Michael Kriz avatar
    0 posts
    11/19/2015 11:11 AM
    We've had two 1600's the past eight years, killed them both. Great machines the first two years then begin hydraulic hose failures. Replaced EVERY hose, they just begin to weep/leak. Latest one had the triple pump rebuilt last winter and this year the fuel injection pump failed, went to the dealer in September and is still there, no part available.

    As I stated before, great machine for two years and then watch out. I would lease for two and then send it back. We average 600 hrs per season. Call or email for further questions/clarification



  6. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    11/19/2015 11:11 AM
    Why not look into a tractor with a Progressive pull-behind unit? Will be way cheaper than what you are currently looking at and will provide a tractor for other tasks.



  7. Terry Negen
    Terry Negen avatar
    0 posts
    11/19/2015 12:11 PM
    I have 2 1600's and they have had there fair share of problems.The one machine has had the injector pump replaced along with the injectors trying to solve a fuel burning problem, we were using over 3.2 GPH during the slow growing season. We have had to replace the rear seals on the rear wheels numerous times.I don't like the way that the grass discharges out of the one deck because it seems to build up on the hydro pump and we have burned out seals on the pump because of heat issues. The list of things that we have had done to them is lng and hoping that I can replace them with either a pull behind or a different brand. I agree 2 years max on these machines, only own as long as the warranty is still valid.

    Terry Negen, Superintendent
    Marshall Golf Club
    Marshall, MN



  8. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/19/2015 2:11 PM
    I would say clipping dispersal was ok when grass was wet, of course the longer the grass the worse it was. We saw similar issues out of the one deck that Terry mentioned, took twice as long to keep that deck clean of grass.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  9. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    11/20/2015 8:11 AM
    Ditto on the Progressive.



  10. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/23/2015 3:11 PM
    A little clarification on how the mowers are used. We have two 4000-D units and mow absolutely all of our rough both primary and secondary, tee banks, clubhouse lawn area, and greens banks with them. Have looked at the pull-behind units but maneuverability became an issue. We currently would have to purchase two tractors with the initial purchase of pull-behind units which would bring the cost comparable to the self-contained units first go round. Still haven't heard from anyone who has a Jacobson 311 model, would like to hear feed back on that unit.

    Mark W. Lytle | GCSAA class A, Golf Course Superintendent
    City of Salina | 2500 E. Crawford St., Salina KS 67401-0736
    Office: 785-826-7455 | Cell: 785-452-5328
    mark.lytle@salina.org | http://www.salina-ks.govMark Lytle



  11. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/23/2015 4:11 PM
    One of our courses just had one delivered to our park shop. Once checked out it will head to that course to replace the 1600. So we can't comment on it yet. The demo was good. Their property is a little hilly, or maybe call it hilly, the 311 handles those hills well, and they like the hydraulic motors for each cutting unit.

    We do have a 311 at one of our parks, pre Tier IV. I guess it has been pretty trouble free, (and those guys used to be able to beat up a piece of equipment with the best of them) I can check tomorrow.

    Another course in our area had a Toro have the hour meter turn over. Don't know what they have spent on maintenance and repairs.

    If you are only burning 1.3 gph with the Toro, fuel savings alone would make up any cost savings from the Deere.

    I always think cost of ownership is neglected during the bidding process, does anyone disagree?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  12. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/24/2015 8:11 AM
    So far the fuel consumption on the 1600 is about 2.9 gal. per hour. I have always looked at the cost of ownership and have easily used that info to justify the additional cost of a piece of equipment. Recently used fuel consumption to justify fuel injected gas rental carts over carburated carts. Have heard back from a couple of superintendents here in state they are working up fuel numbers for me on the 311. Demo is on it's way.
    Curious what everyone is seeing with post Tier-4 engines is fuel consumption up or about the same??

    Mark W. Lytle | GCSAA class A, Golf Course Superintendent
    City of Salina | 2500 E. Crawford St., Salina KS 67401-0736
    Office: 785-826-7455 | Cell: 785-452-5328
    mark.lytle@salina.org | http://www.salina-ks.govMark Lytle



  13. Ryan Reimer
    Ryan Reimer avatar
    3 posts
    11/25/2015 10:11 AM
    I know you said you don't really care for one pulled behind a tractor, but we demoed the Trimax Snake mower back in June and I was amazed at the quality of cut, even at 3/4". It is apparently capable of going as low as 3/8", but we didn't try to drop it that low. It seems like it would be very easy to maintain and fairly inexpensive. I'm pushing for us to try and purchase one soon.



  14. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/25/2015 11:11 AM
    Ryan is that a reel or rotary type??



  15. Ryan Reimer
    Ryan Reimer avatar
    3 posts
    11/30/2015 6:11 AM
    It is a rotary. It has 3 decks and is driven by the PTO on the tractor. The decks have huge rollers for the front & back (no casters), so it follows contours extremely well without scalping. Very easy to maneuver throughout the course. We used it on fairways because we weren't able to mow them with our reel mowers due to the grass being too tall & thick from 3 weeks of constant rainfall. One pass with this mower and everything looked perfect. The fairways were also striped due to the rollers instead of the casters that are typically used on mowers like this one.



  16. Troy Alderson
    Troy Alderson avatar
    0 posts
    11/30/2015 11:11 AM
    I have had a Progressive ProFlex120 for more than the four years I have been at PCC. Overall a good machine, but PCC has very rough ground and the belts tend to shred at 540rpm and about 4-5mph. So, I am looking into the TriMax Snake thinking the fixed decks would handle the rough ground better, less flex points. I also like the idea of using it to cut the fairways during the winter months when needed. The front and rear rollers will help prevent scalping and smooth out the ground a little. A small rotary for around trees and tight areas might still be needed.

    There is more out there then just Red, Green and Orange.



  17. Lytle Mark W
    Lytle Mark W avatar
    11/30/2015 11:11 AM
    Ryan,
    What is the width of cut??

    Mark W. Lytle | GCSAA class A, Golf Course Superintendent
    City of Salina | 2500 E. Crawford St., Salina KS 67401-0736
    Office: 785-826-7455 | Cell: 785-452-5328
    mark.lytle@salina.org | http://www.salina-ks.govMark Lytle



  18. Ryan Reimer
    Ryan Reimer avatar
    3 posts
    12/1/2015 7:12 AM
    Mark,
    I believe the width of cut for the Snake is 10.5 ft. Here is a link to their website that gives you all the details about each mower.

    http://trimaxmowers.com/our-mowers/



  19. James Kizer
    James Kizer avatar
    0 posts
    12/3/2015 12:12 PM
    Mark
    We purchased the first Trimax Snake in the U.S.in September of 2014 and could not be more pleased with the quality of cut and ease of maintenance, we are cutting all our primary roughs green and tee surrounds with this unit, we have recently purchased a second unit the Trimax Pegasus G3 610 (20 ft. wide )to replace our two fairway units, the machines are very well designed and engineered, cutting the turf is not as much of a challenge as it has been in the past, less fuel less labor less maintenance in these challenging times of our industry, we are only using reel mowers on greens and tees from now on. I encourage you to explore your options.
    Jamie Kizer
    Central Texas



  20. Ryan Reimer
    Ryan Reimer avatar
    3 posts
    12/3/2015 2:12 PM
    James,
    How does it handle mulching leaves?



  21. J. Scott Werner
    J. Scott Werner avatar
    0 posts
    12/4/2015 8:12 AM
    Currently on my second pair of Jacobsen 311's, they have been used for two seasons, none have been tier 4. Had Jacobsen 5111's for three years before that, so have now run the large Jacobsen units for the last 9-10 years. Went to the 5111's after a negative experience with J.D. 1600's. Had expensive transmission failures on units that were less than 4 years old. Demoed the 5111's, were quieter, dispersed clippings better, and operators preferred them. Had good luck with the 5111's for 4 years. First set of 311's performed pretty well until year 4 when they began to experience many hydraulic and electrical problems. The current 311's have been very unreliable with a lot of downtime in year two. Mostly just hydraulic leaks at hoses, but have had many and hose routing makes repairs difficult. Planning to run these for one more year and look at all options. Was hopeful that the newer J.D. 1600's had improved from my previous experience. These large area rough mowers are the most expensive items we have in our equipment inventory to purchase and to operate. This will only get worse with the cost increases on all of the tier 4 machines. Granted they do accumulate the most hours and the most abuse of all of our equipment but would just like to have a reliable option for 3-4 years from one of the manufacturers. Also, have no fuel usage data to share as we don't currently track that information. Good luck!



  22. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    12/4/2015 9:12 AM
    James Kizer said: Mark
    ... we have recently purchased a second unit the Trimax Pegasus G3 610 (20 ft. wide )to replace our two fairway units, ....


    Jamie, can you give us all some more info on how you plan to use this machine on fairways please. I watched the video online and it looks interesting and novel to use rotary on fwys, 20 ft swath seems pretty productive. I see you are in Texas so I am assuming bermuda. What height? any scalping? etc. thanks



  23. Michael Kriz
    Michael Kriz avatar
    0 posts
    12/4/2015 10:12 AM
    We are currently shopping for a new WAM, I'd like to hear comments from anyone running wam's from the toro stable



  24. James Kizer
    James Kizer avatar
    0 posts
    12/5/2015 6:12 PM
    We are cutting common and 419 bermuda grass at .750 and scalping has been minimal , the high lift blades or fling tipped blades as they call them are great at sucking the thatch out and dispersing the clippings out the rear of the decks because of the full opening, I will be glad to take any phone calls or emails regarding these units. My email is 3rdgreenkeeper@gmail.com Cell # 512 5298201, Trimax Mowing Systems will be at the GIS trade show in San Diego Jamie Kizer GCS Hidden Falls Golf Club Meadowlakes,Tx



  25. Fischer Austin J
    Fischer Austin J avatar
    12/17/2015 9:12 AM
    Great thread, thanks to all for the input and information.

    We currently have two AR-3's and an AR-522 (the 522 and one AR-3 go out all day, every day). The quality of cut and the mess left behind are pretty ridiculous, so when the turf is really pumping (which was May-October this season here in Iowa), we'd get the Progressive out and go over everything again, and even though everything is set at the same HOC, it was amazing how much grass we were mowing with the Progressive.

    We're not in a position yet to start looking at new rough units, but when the day comes, I'd love to get a demo on a Trimax. I saw them at the show in San Antonio, and they just looked like a really solid unit. But, with such huge rollers, does anyone have issues with the turf laying down and not getting a nice, tight, upright cut? You can tell I'm psychologically damaged from the AR's...



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