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Humic/Fulvic/Kelp to feed Microbes

17 posts
  1. Haynes John M
    Haynes John M avatar
    4/13/2012 6:04 AM
    Just wondering if anyone does any of this, and how well they think it works?



  2. Matthew Neff
    Matthew Neff avatar
    0 posts
    4/14/2012 2:04 PM
    We started using Humate and seasweed regularly last year. We had tried some different products in the past but last year was the first year of a formalized program. We think we definitely saw some benefits but it's hard to say for sure after only one year of regular use. Our N inputs were dramatically reduced and turf quality was outstanding and, as we all know, last summer was pretty brutal. Admittedly, we had several timely rain events that probably helped our cause a little in this regard but nonetheless we used a lot less fert. I've read several times that there have been reports of a reduction in disease occurence especially with humate use but we definitely did not see that. I would imagine that if that's true, it probably takes some time for those conditions to develop.



  3. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    4/14/2012 3:04 PM
    You know, for organisms that have been around since the dawn of time, we sure have been convinced that they need a lot of help, haven't we?



  4. Michael Posey
    Michael Posey avatar
    0 posts
    4/14/2012 5:04 PM
    If your going to feed them, at least get molasses and a pack of biscuits so you can feed yourself too.



  5. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    4/14/2012 6:04 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: You know, for organisms that have been around since the dawn of time, we sure have been convinced that they need a lot of help, haven't we?



    Steve,

    I do believe there is a lot of hype put on us from manufacturers on feeding or growing microbes. But, I also believe that we lose a good bit of the population from other things that we are doing (i.e. insecticides, fungicides and Curfew). Reinoculating or regrowing what you have probably is a good thing.



  6. Matthew Neff
    Matthew Neff avatar
    0 posts
    4/14/2012 7:04 PM
    Andy Jorgensen said:
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: You know, for organisms that have been around since the dawn of time, we sure have been convinced that they need a lot of help, haven't we?



    Steve,

    I do believe there is a lot of hype put on us from manufacturers on feeding or growing microbes. But, I also believe that we lose a good bit of the population from other things that we are doing (i.e. insecticides, fungicides and Curfew). Reinoculating or regrowing what you have probably is a good thing.


    Agree completely. I highly doubt the almost totally artificial soil environment created and maintained on a golf course provide the optimal conditions for microbial populations. Furthermore, as far as I know, seaweed extracts have nothing to do with microbe populations but have been repeatedly shown to have tremendous plant health benefits and humates also have been shown to have direct plant health and soil benefits regardless of microbial populations. Nitrogen fertilization probably wasn't a real common practice at the dawn of time either but you won't find anybody who doesn't do it now. I used to be somewhat sceptical about it myself, but, in my opinion, there has been enough research to suggest there are benefits to at the very least supporting microbial populations.



  7. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    4/14/2012 8:04 PM
    Please post a link to the research you have cited. Thanks.



  8. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    4/14/2012 8:04 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Please post a link to the research you have cited. Thanks.


    Read the article.

    http://www.golfdom-digital.com/golfdom/201111#pg20



  9. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    4/14/2012 8:04 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Please post a link to the research you have cited. Thanks.


    Here's another one.

    http://a-c-s.confex.com/crops/2006am/techprogram/P21255.HTM



  10. DeMay Ryan
    DeMay Ryan avatar
    4/14/2012 11:04 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Please post a link to the research you have cited. Thanks.


    Steve,

    Check out the article on Dr. Erik Ervin from Virginia Tech. He is probably the preeminent academic researcher of these compounds and plant responses. Additionally, there is also a great webcast on TurfNet that Dr. Ervin did last year on the same topic. In the webcast he has some very good data to backup the value of using seaweed extract and humic acid products as a component in our programs. While they are not a silver bullet, there are a number of guys using these compounds with excellent results.

    http://www.golfcourseindustry.com/bionutrition-52611-how-bio-builds.aspx



  11. Hardy Andrew
    Hardy Andrew avatar
    4/15/2012 6:04 AM
    The microbes have survived far worse products than what chemistry we use today (IE Mercury). My personal opinion is plant/soil health super-cede any of these "witches brews" being sold today. There is no possible way of measuring an increase in soil microbes. I have put the money to better things.



  12. Matthew Neff
    Matthew Neff avatar
    0 posts
    4/15/2012 7:04 AM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Please post a link to the research you have cited. Thanks.


    Here's a few more.

    http://www.floridaturfsupport.com/flora ... 20Tech.pdf
    http://grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_main ... rfgrasses/
    http://usgatero.msu.edu/v09/n07.pdf
    http://turf.unl.edu/extpresentationspdf ... ey2010.pdf
    http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/gcman/ar ... 3jun91.pdf

    You can also search seaweed or biostimulants in TGIF - tons of articles that discuss both sides of the debate.



  13. Matthew Neff
    Matthew Neff avatar
    0 posts
    4/15/2012 8:04 AM
    Andrew Hardy said: The microbes have survived far worse products than what chemistry we use today (IE Mercury). My personal opinion is plant/soil health super-cede any of these "witches brews" being sold today. There is no possible way of measuring an increase in soil microbes. I have put the money to better things.


    I agree - the microbe claims are hard if not impossible to quantify and therefore support but microbial populations are not really the entire point of these products. They have direct plant and soil health benefits that have nothing to do with soil microbes. They contain several plant hormones and amino acids (i.e. cytokinins and auxins) that have been shown to increase stress tolerance. Some of this stuff has been shown to be snake oil but there's been a lot of research (especially within the last few years) that is pretty convincing in my opinion.



  14. Satterwhite Kerry
    Satterwhite Kerry avatar
    4/16/2012 1:04 PM
    I don't have a dog in this fight so I will share my observations. I've traveled around the country the last two years and visited 9 hole mom and pop courses to the best courses in the country. In the Midwest, the last two seasons have been brutal and I have seen substantial turf loss. There were a couple of common denominators on the courses that I believed had better turf conditions tee to green. Most of the Superintendents were trying to maintain poa and keep it alive rather than eradiciate it, and most were using some type of humate. There also seemed to be better response with the flowable humic acid sources than those in a granular form as part of a micro-pack in a fertilizer.

    If the goal is to "feed microbes" or increase microbial activity, I believe that you need to create and maintain an environment that is conducive to that. I utilized organic fertilizers as the foundation of my nutrition program, maintained adequate moisture, and routinely, weekly, vented greens and problem areas through spiking and solid tine aeration to increase O2 and gas exchange.

    The thing that I have always admired about this profession is that there is more than one way to achieve the results you desire, and the methods may be very different than what someone else is doing.



  15. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    4/16/2012 7:04 PM
    Steve,

    Decide your reply wasn't worth it for the rest of us? Noticed you deleted after you posted. What gives?



  16. Aguirre-Garcia Mauricio A
    Aguirre-Garcia Mauricio A avatar
    4/28/2012 11:04 AM
    Andy:

    I have been working with a Bioflora product named Humega... This product itself has microbes to reinnoculate the soil. Also there are some products with food for these microganisms like Soil Food Web Activator, from Biolink...

    Best regards



  17. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    4/28/2012 1:04 PM
    Andy Jorgensen said: Steve,

    Decide your reply wasn't worth it for the rest of us? Noticed you deleted after you posted. What gives?


    It's one of those subjects that isn't worth arguing about, so I decided to let it lie. I am firmly of the opinion that if throwing stuff on the ground that you can't quantify makes you feel better and you can afford it, then be my guest.

    Regards

    Steve



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