Frost Delay Cancel The title field is required!

1. Michael Coy

   

   0 posts
   
   10/24/2011 6:10 AM

   I have cool season turf wall to wall and I am constantly asked, "Why don't I turn on the irrigation to get rid of the frost, like blah blah does?". Do a lot of you do this so golfers can get out earlier? Do you just do your greens or tees and fairways also? Just curious!
   
   Thanks,
   Michael Coy
   Oxmoor Country Club
   Louisville, KY

   
   
   
   
2. McDonough Patrick J

   
   10/24/2011 6:10 AM

   Yes that is a common practice but only if the air temp is above 36 or you may find your making the problem worse.

   
   
   
   
3. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   10/24/2011 7:10 AM

   I used to always tell them "I'll turn the water on when the turf needs water."

   
   
   
   
4. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   10/24/2011 9:10 AM

   We do not turn water on unless it is for an important tournament. We have enough problem keeping the surface from being damp just from frost melt. The last thing I want to do is contribute to a better poa growing environment.

   
   
   
   
5. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   10/24/2011 10:10 AM

   We used to do it down in Florida but that was 30 years ago. Here in Missouri we don't for a couple of reasons. Waiting for air temp to be high enough, by that time some frost is already melting. At other times of the winter we have the irrigation system winterized so we couldn't do it anyway, and Sandy makes a good point as well, I will have to use that one too, but we are a little more north then you are.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
6. Richard Lavine

   

   3 posts
   
   10/24/2011 12:10 PM

   I was out early one morning in the dark fertilizing our first green with a light granular application. Popped the sprinklers on for a brief "water in' as I left. A few minutes later I went back to check, and a sheet of ice had formed . It took a while before play could go out that morning.

   
   
   
   
7. David Brandenburg

   

   3 posts
   
   10/24/2011 7:10 PM

   I have found the application of water usually makes things worse as the frost turns to frozen slush. It really needs to be the perfect temp for water to melt the frost faster than the rising sun.

   
   
   
   
8. Hardy Andrew

   
   10/25/2011 5:10 AM

   Nice thing about the great white north is the early winterization of our irrigation systems. Therefore frost is frost, so sit down have a coffee and buy breakfast it'll be at least a couple of hours. Though I do love the guys who stand first in line at the starters house, in case they lose there spot. And the guy who seems to feel its OK to chip on the front lawn, there's frost there too!! We even re-did our range so the players can hit off mats during the delay, and every time I catch someone on the grass tees. And this is all brought to a head by our "Fall Rate" player, who in reality are not our core customer. Just people looking for cheap golf. I hate this time of year, please just let the season be OVER!!!

   
   
   
   
9. Brent Venenga

   

   0 posts
   
   10/25/2011 7:10 AM

   Andrew, I agree. Just stopped in the clubhouse to tell the "Pro" working to say I will let you know when golfers can go because of the frost. His response "I will just let them putt on the putting green."

   
   
   
   
10. Nowakowski Michael J

    
    10/25/2011 10:10 AM

    I remember learning years ago that water gives off heat when freezing, but had never tried it. We closed day after Canadian Thanksgiving which was October 10 this year. We irrigated greens one last time before blowout on the 13th with frost on the ground and below freezing. If water gives off heat when freezing it doesn't give off enough as we soon had ice everywhere. Not a problem though, and it confirmed to me to not water when temps are below freezing.

    
    
    
    
11. Michael Coy

    

    0 posts
    
    10/25/2011 11:10 AM

    Thanks everyone! I will just stick with the "have a cup of coffee and wait" method.
    
    Michael Coy
    Oxmoor Country Club
    Louisville, KY

    
    
    
    
12. Joe Wachter

    

    5 posts
    
    10/26/2011 6:10 AM

    Michael,
    
    A little further north than you but we might do our greens once during the October frost season. Water temperature is beginning to cool and frost will begin to get heavier once we get into November. I have also allowed them to start when its only on the tall grass and not on the greens(public course). Would place carts on paths for a couple holes and lift it once it had cleared. This was a course that would run between 150-200 rounds so getting them out was beneficial for everyone concerned.

    
    
    
    
13. Nowakowski John E

    
    10/26/2011 9:10 AM

    Wow! Being at a private Club why wouldn't you take care of your members and do what you can to make it enjoyable for them? Everyone has a busy life and I'm sure your members would like to get the golf in and join the family for the rest of the day. Syringe the first nine holes, greens, tees, fairways, roughs. It may or may not work with what the air temp is that morning, however it is showing the members you are doing what you can to make the frost melt. It will not hurt the grass. Watch for cold temps, keep the golf course dry the day before. The member who is asking you may one day become the Greens Chair or the Club President and you may be looking for a new job.

    
    
    
    
14. Steve Nelson

    

    0 posts
    
    10/26/2011 11:10 AM

    Well, I'm no expert on frost since it hardly ever happens here, but I was wondering why do courses where frosts are regular go through all the headaches? Why not just set a later start time for winter so any frost would be cleared up and the course readied for play? Golfers would know what time to start and plan accordingly. As an alternate, why not just have a single shotgun start around 9:30 or 10:00, get them through the course, then close down & save some dough. How many golfers are you going to get that day anyway?
    
    Pardon the naive questions from someone that has never worked in the frost belt. Just curious.

    
    
    
    
15. Hardy Andrew

    
    10/26/2011 11:10 AM

    Gus you just hit the nail on the head there. I have been urging for a 10:00 shotgun once we get into regular frost delays. The response has always been "what if there isn't frost". We are in Canada and more years than not we have frost everyday from mid-Oct on. But this year we have had only 3 so far so the pro's theory works. But in most years it doesn't. We are still starting at 7am in the dark to stay ahead of the 8am first tee time. And if there's frost, forget it we're screwed as we may only get a 20 min head start. But that's what happens when you open the doors to cheap green fee players in the late fall.

    
    
    
    
16. Fleegel Timothy

    
    10/26/2011 12:10 PM

    We start moving the first tee time back starting in mid-Sept. It just keeps going back as the season moves on. Right now our first time is at 10:00am and we only have 20 or so players a day, so no need for the shotgun.

    
    
    
    
17. Joe Wachter

    

    5 posts
    
    10/26/2011 1:10 PM

    jnoah said: Wow! Being at a private Club why wouldn't you take care of your members and do what you can to make it enjoyable for them? Everyone has a busy life and I'm sure your members would like to get the golf in and join the family for the rest of the day. Syringe the first nine holes, greens, tees, fairways, roughs. It may or may not work with what the air temp is that morning, however it is showing the members you are doing what you can to make the frost melt. It will not hurt the grass. Watch for cold temps, keep the golf course dry the day before. The member who is asking you may one day become the Greens Chair or the Club President and you may be looking for a new job.

    
    
    Not very many days of frost in the first place when syringe could potentially work for us. Play has begun to drop off in mid-October when frost delays might begin to occur. We keep a good line of communication open with our membership so I'm not worried about a few frost delays. I have more issues with opening/closing and carts on/off paths for rainfall in one season than I would ever have regarding frost. Usually side on the side of golfers than worry about the turf.
    
    Few more challenges of frost at my past public course experiences but it is what it is. Not a bad idea regarding shotguns but frost is not very inconsistent in our part of the country until you get into the dead of winter. Too many choices for folks. They would walk before being forced to come at 10 a.m.

    
    
    
    
18. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    10/26/2011 3:10 PM

    jnoah said: Wow! Being at a private Club why wouldn't you take care of your members and do what you can to make it enjoyable for them? Everyone has a busy life and I'm sure your members would like to get the golf in and join the family for the rest of the day. Syringe the first nine holes, greens, tees, fairways, roughs. It may or may not work with what the air temp is that morning, however it is showing the members you are doing what you can to make the frost melt. It will not hurt the grass. Watch for cold temps, keep the golf course dry the day before. The member who is asking you may one day become the Greens Chair or the Club President and you may be looking for a new job.

    
    
    
    A. The days that I have frost on the greens, there ain't no way that a syringe is going to take off
    B. A syringe on the greens when its that cold amounts to watering greens everyday
    C. Why would I do the same thing to the whole front 9 when it's going to take them at least an hour and a half to reach the 9th hole anyway.
    D. if the frost is light enough that a syringe will remove it, it will be gone in 10 minutes anyway
    E. A syringe will not help to remove a decent frost.
    F. "Syringing" to remove frost is silly, just silly

    
    
    
    
19. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    10/28/2011 11:10 PM

    
    
    
    A. The days that I have frost on the greens, there ain't no way that a syringe is going to take off
    B. A syringe on the greens when its that cold amounts to watering greens everyday
    C. Why would I do the same thing to the whole front 9 when it's going to take them at least an hour and a half to reach the 9th hole anyway.
    D. if the frost is light enough that a syringe will remove it, it will be gone in 10 minutes anyway
    E. A syringe will not help to remove a decent frost.
    F. "Syringing" to remove frost is silly, just silly
    
    Schmiddy (78),
    
    Couldn't have said it any better myself. If 78 was your high school graduation year, then that was a good year. Only a few of us are that lucky.

    
    
    
    
20. McCallum David K

    
    10/30/2011 6:10 AM

    Kids.

    
    
    
    
21. Bradley Frunchak

    

    24 posts
    
    10/30/2011 8:10 AM

    I usually watch the predicted lows for 3-4 days and coordinate with the proshop about start times. Days that the temp. may cause frost they book later.
    We have been caught with no frost early and then as the sun rises the air temp. drops and frost occurs late. Can actually watch the course turn white, pretty cool to watch, but a pain to deal with.
    
    Keeping the course dry the day before isn't the solution either, dew forms at night from the humidity and then freezes. It's not water on the outside of the plant you worry about so much, its the actual plant and water inside freezing. Have had days with no visible signs of frost but you go and touch the turf and it is frozen. It crushes under your feet and by the afternoon you can still see the footprints.

    
    
    
    
22. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    10/30/2011 8:10 AM

    McCallum said: Kids.

    
    
    Old fart.

    
    
    
    
23. Chuck Barber

    

    0 posts
    
    10/30/2011 3:10 PM

    The perception of trying to remove frost is valuable even though you're wasting water and electricity. I syringe the practice green a few minutes prior to the frost melt and that mileage goes a long way. Perception is reality.

    
    
    
    
24. Scott Hiles

    

    0 posts
    
    10/31/2011 8:10 AM

    There are many variables that come into play. Spring syringing will do nothing as the water temps are still too cold and will only make the frost last longer [ice actually].
    
    In the fall it may help to get my crew out a few minutes earlier depending on how cool it is and at what the water temps are. I would suggest you are only speeding things up by 15 minutes on sunny turf, which could be valuable if you still need to cut or roll. Shade areas are another thing altogether.
    
    There are many variables that will come into play so I wouldn't discount the idea. I would recommend being highly visible and using the delay as a tool to meet and greet, answer questions on frost or on your programs. Their perception is your reality.

    
    
    
    
25. Ken Wheeler

    

    0 posts
    
    4/22/2014 6:04 AM

    I have been at this for course for 10 years now, before I came they play on Frost and drove there carts everywhere. Now the frost fight is back again, when I got here greens where 30% moss and bare spots, now we have grass on them but there don't care about that just playing and started as early as they can. They what to play in winter with no frost delays, I can't find articles on winter play about damage just spring and fall. Please Help Thanks

    
    
    
    
26. Peterson David T

    
    4/22/2014 9:04 AM

    We use temp greens on 9 holes in the winter time then open the course once greens have thawed. Our big problem was damage on tees. You lose a lot of turf when you put 20-30 people out daily on the same frosty tees. Carts are NEVER allowed off paths during frost delays. In the spring when the damage shows up we have been resodding or closing that tee for a while for a re-growin. I have some pictures if you would like that you can show what your tees will look like if they continuously play in the frost. If you want them you can email me. davidp@echofallsgolf.com

    
    
    
    
27. David Brudwick

    

    1 posts
    
    9/10/2014 7:09 PM

    Hi everyone, we have a huge city tournament on Saturday . The problem is we are suppose to see some light-frost in the morning. This is goofy Minnesota weather but what can you do. The first groups are teeing off on 1 and 10 at 7:30 am. The second groups are teeing off at 2:30 on 1 and 10 also. It will be about a five hour round.Would it be okay to syringe the greens, tees, and fairways to get the frost off. If I delay the tournament the afternoon group may not finish before it gets dark. Any suggestions ??? Thank you ...

    
    
    
    
28. Christopher Thuer

    

    101 posts
    
    9/10/2014 8:09 PM

    Others will have more experience with this but I tried it a couple of times. The first it was still below freezing (at ground level) and the irrigation water froze. The next time I waited until the sun came up and the frost started to melt. The water finished off the melt quicker. The problem though was the non irrigated rough still had enough frost to still delay play.

    
    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN
    
    
29. Timothy Walker

    

    0 posts
    
    9/10/2014 8:09 PM

    Chris in that instance I do cart path only for say 45 minutes...it's only rough and will only temporarily discolor turf...no permanent damage...

    
    
    
    
30. Kevin Girt

    

    0 posts
    
    9/11/2014 8:09 AM

    Old school
    Apply a good wetting agent tomorrow morning, no dew, no frost. as long as you dont go below 28 degrees. In which case run a syringe. worked great in WV, IN and TN for me.