DuPont Imprelis Claims Cancel The title field is required!

1. Robert Steger

   

   0 posts
   
   11/5/2011 9:11 AM

   Has anybody had any luck with DuPont doing anything regarding the trees their "environmentally safe" herbicide killed or significantly injured? So far, they have been out to my golf course twice (rating damage and taking pictures), but nothing has really been done yet. By "done" I mean something measurable, something to ease the pain of receiving hundreds of phone calls this summer from members and non-members that see the trees while driving by. Something to ease the pain of being asked daily, "any word from DuPont?". When this whole fiasco started, I tried to be the voice of reason telling the membership this will be resolved; now I am starting to wonder.
   
   I wonder why the industry, "our" industry, hasn't taken a more aggressive approach to this situation. I have been very surprised with the GCSAA's approach to this whole mess. From the outside looking in, it seems that the GCSAA is more concerned with keeping an "industry partner" than applying pressure.
   
   Personally, I will not buy another product from DuPont, or the supplier that sold the Imprelis; until my club is made whole. I realize that it's not the supplier's fault. I also realize that if I don't hurt the supplier financially, they will have no reason to push DuPont towards resolving the issue. I think that if all Superintendents would do the same, the whole process may start to move a little faster. In the North, it is "early-order season", I wonder if DuPont saw a significant reduction in pre-season booking, would they get their act together?

   
   
   
   
2. Robert Steger

   

   0 posts
   
   11/5/2011 9:11 AM

   Has anybody had any luck with DuPont doing anything regarding the trees their "environmentally safe" herbicide killed or significantly injured? So far, they have been out to my golf course twice (rating damage and taking pictures), but nothing has really been done yet. By "done" I mean something measurable, something to ease the pain of receiving hundreds of phone calls this summer from members and non-members that see the trees while driving by. Something to ease the pain of being asked daily, "any word from DuPont?". When this whole fiasco started, I tried to be the voice of reason telling the membership this will be resolved; now I am starting to wonder.
   
   I wonder why the industry, "our" industry, hasn't taken a more aggressive approach to this situation. I have been very surprised with the GCSAA's approach to this whole mess. From the outside looking in, it seems that the GCSAA is more concerned with keeping an "industry partner" than applying pressure.
   
   Personally, I will not buy another product from DuPont, or the supplier that sold the Imprelis; until my club is made whole. I realize that it's not the supplier's fault. I also realize that if I don't hurt the supplier financially, they will have no reason to push DuPont towards resolving the issue. I think that if all Superintendents would do the same, the whole process may start to move a little faster. In the North, it is "early-order season", I wonder if DuPont saw a significant reduction in pre-season booking, would they get their act together?

   
   
   
   
3. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   11/5/2011 10:11 AM

   rsteger59 said:
   
   I wonder why the industry, "our" industry, hasn't taken a more aggressive approach to this situation. I have been very surprised with the GCSAA's approach to this whole mess. From the outside looking in, it seems that the GCSAA is more concerned with keeping an "industry partner" than applying pressure.
   
   I happen to believe that GCSAA should not have anything to do with this situation, especially when it comes to "applying pressure." GCSAA has nothing to do whatsoever with the problem. I suppose you could threaten to cancel your membership if GCSAA doesn't get involved.
   
   Personally, I will not buy another product from DuPont, or the supplier that sold the Imprelis; until my club is made whole. I realize that it's not the supplier's fault. I also realize that if I don't hurt the supplier financially, they will have no reason to push DuPont towards resolving the issue. I think that if all Superintendents would do the same, the whole process may start to move a little faster. In the North, it is "early-order season", I wonder if DuPont saw a significant reduction in pre-season booking, would they get their act together?

   
   
   Ultimately this is on DuPont to resolve to your satisfaction. I don't agree with your approach of punishing the supplier. Don't buy other DuPont products from that supplier (or any supplier), that's up to you. But to decide not to buy Bayer, or Syngenta, or Valent, or FMC, or any other manufacturers product for that matter, is not doing anybody any good, IMO.
   
   DuPont released it knowing it would do what it claimed it would do, but not knowing the problems it would cause. That's their problem. Your supplier sold it to you in good faith based on DuPont's research and reputation. If you were to tell your supplier you will not buy seed, ferts, or other stuff from him until DuPont makes you happy.....well, I just think you're punishing the wrong party.

   
   
   
   
4. Robert Steger

   

   0 posts
   
   11/5/2011 11:11 AM

   The GCSAA was created by Superintendents, for Superintendents. If the GCSAA doesn't step up when their membership needs them, what value do they bring to their membership, or better yet, what value does the GCSAA bring to the Clubs that pay dues on behalf of their membership? Don't get me wrong, I value the educational opportunities that the GCSAA provides for me, I also value what the GCSAA has helped do for my profession. I just wish a little more emphasis was placed on doing what is best for the membership, not what is best to preserve relationships with "industry partners".
   
   The company that sold the Imprelis to me went AWOL for about 2 months after these problems surfaced. They were not out taking pictures, calling DuPont, emailing DuPont, that was on me. Well, it is my choice who I do business with; and as a Superintendent I work hard, real hard, 7 days a week. I choose to do business with people that also work hard (for me and my Club), I guess I like to do business with people that I would like to go to battle with. Maybe one of my High School football coaches rubbed off on me more than they should have, but my crew; and my membership know that I give 100% everyday, and expect the same out of everyone that I choose to associate and do business with. I don't know how a Superintendent that doesn't approach their job the way I do could ever make their golf course the best it can be.

   
   
   
   
5. Wahlin Scott B

   
   11/5/2011 12:11 PM

   rsteger59 said: The GCSAA was created by Superintendents, for Superintendents. If the GCSAA doesn't step up when their membership needs them, what value do they bring to their membership, or better yet, what value does the GCSAA bring to the Clubs that pay dues on behalf of their membership? Don't get me wrong, I value the educational opportunities that the GCSAA provides for me, I also value what the GCSAA has helped do for my profession. I just wish a little more emphasis was placed on doing what is best for the membership, not what is best to preserve relationships with "industry partners".
   
   The company that sold the Imprelis to me went AWOL for about 2 months after these problems surfaced. They were not out taking pictures, calling DuPont, emailing DuPont, that was on me. Well, it is my choice who I do business with; and as a Superintendent I work hard, real hard, 7 days a week. I choose to do business with people that also work hard (for me and my Club), I guess I like to do business with people that I would like to go to battle with. Maybe one of my High School football coaches rubbed off on me more than they should have, but my crew; and my membership know that I give 100% everyday, and expect the same out of everyone that I choose to associate and do business with. I don't know how a Superintendent that doesn't approach their job the way I do could ever make their golf course the best it can be.

   
   
   I completely agree with you and as usual completely disagree with Pete.
   
   Twenty years ago the makers of fungicide (major company but my memory is failing) sent out product that contained a herbicide that killed ferns. Most in the fern industry were AFFECTED. It just so happened that this manufacturer retained the same law firm that I had retained for an issue at my club. My attorney asked me about the case. I told her (I remember her name, but she was a hottie!) that I would suggest a settlement since it may be hard to convince a jury that 1000 fern growers all forgot how to grow ferns at the same time.
   
   I applied an insecticide for mole crickets to the first four holes of a golf course wall-to-wall. The sprigs for the fairways were obtained from a golf course that was built in the 30's; it was a Heinz 57 of grasses. One of these off-types was killed completely by this insecticide. I lost over three acres of grass. Representatives from the manufacturer (memory?) came and did test plots at 0.5x, 1.0x and 2.0x the rate. They never followed up. I called them finally and they asked how the test went. I told them that the grass was completely dead in all three plots. By the time they contacted me again I had grown the areas in with plugs and nitrogen.
   
   My point is that there is no reason in my mind to avoid generics because the big guys do not back up their customers anyway.

   
   
   
   
6. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   11/5/2011 5:11 PM

   wahlins said:

   rsteger59 said: The GCSAA was created by Superintendents, for Superintendents. If the GCSAA doesn't step up when their membership needs them, what value do they bring to their membership, or better yet, what value does the GCSAA bring to the Clubs that pay dues on behalf of their membership? Don't get me wrong, I value the educational opportunities that the GCSAA provides for me, I also value what the GCSAA has helped do for my profession. I just wish a little more emphasis was placed on doing what is best for the membership, not what is best to preserve relationships with "industry partners".
   
   The company that sold the Imprelis to me went AWOL for about 2 months after these problems surfaced. They were not out taking pictures, calling DuPont, emailing DuPont, that was on me. Well, it is my choice who I do business with; and as a Superintendent I work hard, real hard, 7 days a week. I choose to do business with people that also work hard (for me and my Club), I guess I like to do business with people that I would like to go to battle with. Maybe one of my High School football coaches rubbed off on me more than they should have, but my crew; and my membership know that I give 100% everyday, and expect the same out of everyone that I choose to associate and do business with. I don't know how a Superintendent that doesn't approach their job the way I do could ever make their golf course the best it can be.

   
   
   I completely agree with you and as usual completely disagree with Pete.
   
   Good for you, Mr. Punctuation Changer. Put another mark on your office wall next to your computer. As it turns out, rsteger59 did not mention in his original post that his supplier went AWOL for two months, but you probably overlooked that just to disgree with me. In fact, he said he knew it wasn't their fault. Real big of you to comment, and disagree with me, after rsteger59 made his second post. Creep.
   
   Now that rsteger59 has made that info known - heck, I agree with him too. But you? You're just disagreeable.
   

   
   
   
   
7. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   11/5/2011 6:11 PM

   It wasn't him. goddidit.

   
   
   
   
8. James Gray

   

   1 posts
   
   11/5/2011 11:11 PM

   Good for you. Keep up the fight

   
   
   
   
9. Neidhardt John J

   
   11/6/2011 5:11 AM

   I put it on the Manufacturer! My supplier helped me get their attention. 2 years ago, I sprayed a new Pre-emergent Herbicide on Fairways proper according to recommended labeled instructions that resulted in the loss of 10 acres of turf. It seemed that the product moved and became highly concentrated and thus toxic in low lying areas. BASF was on the scene in days. They made a half a dozen site visits. They took pictures, took soil samples for concentration, and sent the developer all the way here to the East coast from California.
   Meanwhile, We sprigged the damaged areas, and fertilized weekly with ammonium sulfate weekly until all areas completely recovered. After this, BASF picked up the tab for all damages and changed the label on their product as a result of what happened here. I can't speak highly enough of how they handled things.

   
   
   
   
10. Brad Fox_2

    

    0 posts
    
    11/6/2011 5:11 AM

    I had a good experience with Primera One (made by Quali Pro). We received a bad batch of Chlorothalonil (setting at the bottom of the jugs). Made a phone call to our supplier and w/in a week they shipped the old stuff out and a new pallet arrived. I was more than happy with that service--I was merely letting them know they may have a bad batch and I didn't ask for product replacement. I have also had a good experience with BASF as well. We applied INSIGNIA for fairy ring prevention (which is on the label). Within a week our green were covered in fairy ring. I called BASF to question the claim that INSIGNIA is on the label--and question whether we applied it corretly. Simply stated the INSIGNIA did not do what it was supposed to do (I don't think FR should be on the label). It took BASF a few weeks/months to respond & take action but they did they eventually did the right thing.
    
    My two cents,
    
    Brad Fox
    New Jersey National Golf Club
    Basking Ridge, NJ

    
    
    
    
11. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    11/6/2011 6:11 AM

    I have never had any issues with either a supplier or manufacturer guaranteeing their product. However, when you are talking about the size and type of claims that are being brought about by the Imprelis issues, it's going to take more than a few months to get resolved. This is a huge problem across several industries. The shear size and locations of all claim makers is going to take time to analyze. Months and maybe years. Be patient, I have no doubt DuPont will stand behind their product.
    
    Have you been to the web site www.imprelis-facts.com? You'll find this:
    
    "DuPont Begins Claims Resolution Process
    
    On September 6, DuPont began a process to fairly resolve claims for impact on trees that DuPont™ Imprelis® herbicide may have caused.
    
    For more information about our Claims Resolution Process, you may click here, or call our hotline at 866-796-4783.
    
    We sincerely regret any tree injuries that Imprelis® may have caused, and will work with you to fairly resolve problems associated with our product.
    
    DuPont is fully committed to making sure that our valued customers are satisfied with our products, and to the responsible stewardship of these products. "
    
    Have you tried calling the hotline to check on the status of your claim? Or are you waiting on them or your supplier? If anybody needs to put some heat on DuPont, it's you.

    
    
    
    
12. Wahlin Scott B

    
    11/6/2011 10:11 AM

    God for you: Master Punctuation Changer? Don't ever let 'em!!

    
    
    
    
13. Joe Wachter

    

    5 posts
    
    11/6/2011 9:11 PM

    Huge problem with a lot at stake for everyone. Multi-national company with billions of dollars of sales and a lot of lawyers.
    
    Do not believe our association has the re$ources or responsibility to deal with this problem. Sounds like you need to call owner and salesman of company if they failed to follow through with you properly.
    
    I would inform your members to the best of the imformation that you have. Two visits sounds to me like you have there complete attention. Sometimes people that yell the loudest get what they want the quickest. I would stay on top of them. Documemt every phone call, names, dates, times, emails etc. I would be cutting those trees down as quickly as possible once given the okay. Out of site, out of mind.
    
    No doubt its a tough situation to deal with.

    
    
    
    
14. Robert Steger

    

    0 posts
    
    11/8/2011 5:11 PM

    Our Association does have the resources, it's membership, and the answer is a boycott. If every Superintendent said, sorry, I am not buying Acelpryn this year, I am going to try Meridian or Arena because of what DuPont is doing to my fellow Superintendents, I think DuPont would spring into action.
    
    I think that the association is more concerned about who will pay to fly all of the board members to the next meeting on fiscal responsibility in a tough economy, than making sure their membership is being "taken care of" by one of the associations "industry partners".
    
    There is only one way to make a company feel the pain that hundreds if not thousands of Superintendents are going through, and that is to hit them where it hurts, in the bank account.
    
    I know that there have been a number of class action lawsuits, the only winners in this type of litigation are the attorneys involved. This needs to be resolved outside of the courtroom.

    
    
    
    
15. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    11/8/2011 6:11 PM

    rsteger59 said: Our Association does have the resources, it's membership, and the answer is a boycott. If every Superintendent said, sorry, I am not buying Acelpryn this year, I am going to try Meridian or Arena because of what DuPont is doing to my fellow Superintendents, I think DuPont would spring into action.
    
    I think that the association is more concerned about who will pay to fly all of the board members to the next meeting on fiscal responsibility in a tough economy, than making sure their membership is being "taken care of" by one of the associations "industry partners".
    
    There is only one way to make a company feel the pain that hundreds if not thousands of Superintendents are going through, and that is to hit them where it hurts, in the bank account.
    
    I know that there have been a number of class action lawsuits, the only winners in this type of litigation are the attorneys involved. This needs to be resolved outside of the courtroom.

    
    
    
    So, once again, have YOU tried contacting DuPont?

    
    
    
    
16. Andrew Cross

    

    5 posts
    
    11/8/2011 7:11 PM

    Well I didn't spray Imprelis, but I did spray acelepryn and absolutely love the product so why would I boycott the product? DuPont is a okay in my book, so I again ask why would I personally (or my club) boycott a company that makes an amazing low impact product that I used very successfully on my greens and tees?
    
    I get your anger but now your pushing that anger outward towards the association and its members. Not the right avenue, I would channel it toward DuPont and your supplier. Just my view of it.

    
    
    
    
17. Stowe Brad

    
    11/8/2011 8:11 PM

    Aren't trees just really big weeds.

    
    
    
    
18. Robert Steger

    

    0 posts
    
    11/8/2011 8:11 PM

    DuPont has been out to my site twice, taking pictures, measurements, assessing damage. My guess is they have been out for their own benefit, not mine. In a way, I wonder if I should have even let them on the property. So yes, I have contacted DuPont, about 25 times this summer. I think this was noted in one of my first posts.
    
    To answer the question on why someone would boycott DuPont, when they have used Acelepryn successfully? The answer is to show unity among Superintendents and Golf Clubs forcing DuPont to do what is right. So your Club would be supporting other golf courses that could maybe do the same for you in the future. There are other season long insecticides on the market, that are just as effective. Namely Meridian or Arena.
    
    I am angry with the Association, because I think that they should be getting involved. I think the reason that they aren't getting involved is financial. To me, it is a conflict of interest to accept money from suppliers in exchange for business. I think that if the GCSAA wasn't accepting money from DuPont (as well as many other chemical and fertilizer manufacturers), the Association would be more likely to press issues on behalf of it's membership. It is kind of like University research on a product that is funded by the manufacturer, conflict of interest, and nobody will say anything bad about the person footing the bill.
    
    I apologize for my anger, but this has been going on for 6 months, with no end in sight. This isn't right.

    
    
    
    
19. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    11/8/2011 9:11 PM

    It's ok to be angry, and I sympathize with you, but unless your willing to pay at least twice or three times as much in dues, accepting advertising and sponsorships from manufacturers it a way of life, local chapters as well.
    
    What could help possibly as superintendents is if we individually boycott DuPont, but I don't know how much that will help, the golf market is pretty small. I think we do need to keep lines of communications open as an association and as superintendents. Just my opinion.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
20. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    11/9/2011 4:11 AM

    rsteger59 said: DuPont has been out to my site twice, taking pictures, measurements, assessing damage. My guess is they have been out for their own benefit, not mine. In a way, I wonder if I should have even let them on the property. So yes, I have contacted DuPont, about 25 times this summer. I think this was noted in one of my first posts.
    
    I apologize for my anger, but this has been going on for 6 months, with no end in sight. This isn't right.

    
    
    
    
    You contacted them this summer. But, have you contacted them recently, within the past few weeks, or, prior to posting on a public forum, to get a follow-up? How about contacting your DuPont rep and putting heat on them?
    
    I recently went through the same thing, but with an equipment lease. I got no answer for several months from either the vendor or leasing company. I was angry, too. But, I kept at it until they finally resolved my issue. Never did I try to get the association involved nor did I try to gather the masses for a boycott. If anybody would solve the problem, it was me.

    
    
    
    
21. Wahlin Scott B

    
    11/9/2011 5:11 AM

    andyjorg said:

    rsteger59 said: DuPont has been out to my site twice, taking pictures, measurements, assessing damage. My guess is they have been out for their own benefit, not mine. In a way, I wonder if I should have even let them on the property. So yes, I have contacted DuPont, about 25 times this summer. I think this was noted in one of my first posts.
    
    I apologize for my anger, but this has been going on for 6 months, with no end in sight. This isn't right.

    
    
    
    
    You contacted them this summer. But, have you contacted them recently, within the past few weeks, or, prior to posting on a public forum, to get a follow-up? How about contacting your DuPont rep and putting heat on them?
    
    I recently went through the same thing, but with an equipment lease. I got no answer for several months from either the vendor or leasing company. I was angry, too. But, I kept at it until they finally resolved my issue. Never did I try to get the association involved nor did I try to gather the masses for a boycott. If anybody would solve the problem, it was me.

    
    
    They have already been to his site. I would say it is their responsibility to follow-up with him. If he has to follow -up with them then posting on a public forum is certainly reasonable in my opinion. I also think it is reasonable to expect the GCSAA to look into the matter and for other superintendents to support each other when a company jerking superintendents around.

    
    
    
    
22. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    11/9/2011 6:11 AM

    wahlins said:

    andyjorg said:

    rsteger59 said: DuPont has been out to my site twice, taking pictures, measurements, assessing damage. My guess is they have been out for their own benefit, not mine. In a way, I wonder if I should have even let them on the property. So yes, I have contacted DuPont, about 25 times this summer. I think this was noted in one of my first posts.
    
    I apologize for my anger, but this has been going on for 6 months, with no end in sight. This isn't right.

    
    
    
    
    You contacted them this summer. But, have you contacted them recently, within the past few weeks, or, prior to posting on a public forum, to get a follow-up? How about contacting your DuPont rep and putting heat on them?
    
    I recently went through the same thing, but with an equipment lease. I got no answer for several months from either the vendor or leasing company. I was angry, too. But, I kept at it until they finally resolved my issue. Never did I try to get the association involved nor did I try to gather the masses for a boycott. If anybody would solve the problem, it was me.

    
    
    They have already been to his site. I would say it is their responsibility to follow-up with him. If he has to follow -up with them then posting on a public forum is certainly reasonable in my opinion. I also think it is reasonable to expect the GCSAA to look into the matter and for other superintendents to support each other when a company jerking superintendents around.

    
    
    
    Scott,
    
    When your paycheck goes missing, do you stand around and wait for them to contact you, or do you go find an answer yourself?

    
    
    
    
23. Wahlin Scott B

    
    11/9/2011 6:11 AM

    andyjorg said:

    wahlins said:

    andyjorg said:

    rsteger59 said: DuPont has been out to my site twice, taking pictures, measurements, assessing damage. My guess is they have been out for their own benefit, not mine. In a way, I wonder if I should have even let them on the property. So yes, I have contacted DuPont, about 25 times this summer. I think this was noted in one of my first posts.
    
    I apologize for my anger, but this has been going on for 6 months, with no end in sight. This isn't right.

    
    
    
    
    You contacted them this summer. But, have you contacted them recently, within the past few weeks, or, prior to posting on a public forum, to get a follow-up? How about contacting your DuPont rep and putting heat on them?
    
    I recently went through the same thing, but with an equipment lease. I got no answer for several months from either the vendor or leasing company. I was angry, too. But, I kept at it until they finally resolved my issue. Never did I try to get the association involved nor did I try to gather the masses for a boycott. If anybody would solve the problem, it was me.

    
    
    They have already been to his site. I would say it is their responsibility to follow-up with him. If he has to follow -up with them then posting on a public forum is certainly reasonable in my opinion. I also think it is reasonable to expect the GCSAA to look into the matter and for other superintendents to support each other when a company jerking superintendents around.

    
    
    
    Scott,
    
    When your paycheck goes missing, do you stand around and wait for them to contact you, or do you go find an answer yourself?

    
    
    Of course I go and find it myself, then I find someone else to do business with.

    
    
    
    
24. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    11/9/2011 6:11 AM

    I have found that I have a particular talent for being a very squeaky wheel. Despite whatever you think that GCSAA should or shouldn't be doing, you need to focus your anger towards DuPont and be a thorn is their side. Find as many e-mail contacts within their company that may pertain to this and shoot off stern but professional letters and don't relent. I'm sure if you think about it you can be creative on what you can come up with and you can share your battle with the membership and encourage them to join the fight. Show them you are practicing your upmost due diligence.
    
    Good luck.

    
    
    
    
25. McCallum David K

    
    11/9/2011 10:11 AM

    Have never used the product but did not prevent the law firm that is handling the class action suit from mailing our club a letter that got the GM stirred up after reading it. Callllllllllmmmmmmmm down, no harm, no foul for us anyway.