Unrealistic Expectations (green speeds) Cancel The title field is required!

1. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   5/22/2013 8:05 AM

   I am just curious how seasoned Supt's deal with unrealistic expectations from there membership. In this case it is solely my greens committee chairman. He has requested we keep our green speeds at 10++ on the stimpmeter everyday throughout the season. I know 99% of our members don't even know what a stimpmeter is but still... Granted we can provide those speeds for tournaments but not everyday with the 11 man crew I have and still complete basic maintenance tasks. 9.5ft-10ft daily is more realistic. The bar keeps getting higher and the funds continue to deplenish. Any advice would be great.

   
   
   
   
2. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   5/22/2013 9:05 AM

   Let me guess, your greens chair is a low handicapper. If he could be appeased at 10 to 11, you can probably manage that without much effort. The key issues would be type of greens construction, drainage, sunlight, turf type, number of rounds etc. Can the turf survive with your heat and humidity if you greatly increase speed. If you are limited in funds, will your fungicide budget jump up. Will you have to commit more time to daily syringing of greens during your hot season. The issue that always bothers me is that very few golfers putt well at the higher speeds yet they seem to think it is cool! I am guessing most would actully prefer scoring better. I am assuming you are a private facility? If you are not, can you afford the increase in time per round that will happen with more 3 and 4 putts? Since he is your boss, the best way is to slowly educate him. Confrontation will not work. Gather all your facts and set up the best game plan as to how to educate him. Do you have a USGA Agronomist available to provide support. You need to express willingness to support your boss but he also needs to be aware of the potential risks. What do the rest of the players want? Good luck with your challenge.

   
   
   
   
3. Wahlin Scott B

   
   5/22/2013 10:05 AM

   I was at a private club where the undulations in the greens did not allow for 10, yet we were expected to have them there at 4pm when the Head Pro (my boss) played. I saw members putt balls off greens, into bunkers and into the lake on one hole on a regular basis. I invited my boss over for lunch on a Men's Day. I made prior arrangements to be seated next to the stairs where the golfers would be coming up from their round. We brought the greens back to 9 shortly after this.
   
   It has been a long time since I used the USGA TAS, but they are particularly helpful in communicating realistic expectations to a membership or committee.

   
   
   
   
4. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   5/22/2013 12:05 PM

   Lie to him, he won't be able to tell.

   
   
   
   
5. Dru Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   5/22/2013 6:05 PM

   All good advice. Thanks!!

   
   
   
   
6. Tom Forsythe

   

   0 posts
   
   5/22/2013 8:05 PM

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Lie to him, he won't be able to tell.

   
   
   My thoughts exactly.

   
   
   
   
7. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   5/22/2013 11:05 PM

   Tom Forsythe said:

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Lie to him, he won't be able to tell.

   
   
   My thoughts exactly.

   
   
   Unless he has his own stimp.

   
   
   
   
8. James Schmid

   

   1 posts
   
   5/23/2013 6:05 AM

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

   Tom Forsythe said:

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Lie to him, he won't be able to tell.

   
   
   My thoughts exactly.

   
   
   Unless he has his own stimp.

   
   
   One of my members got his own stimp meter. It sucks

   
   
   
   
9. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   5/23/2013 8:05 AM

   James Schmid said:

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

   Tom Forsythe said:

   Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Lie to him, he won't be able to tell.

   
   
   My thoughts exactly.

   
   
   Unless he has his own stimp.

   
   
   One of my members got his own stimp meter. It sucks

   
   
   I have a computer, so I must be a IT expert.
   
   I'm sure he read this before he used it. http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/management/greens/Stimpmeter-Instruction-Booklet/
   A key line in the Stimpmeter Instruction Booklet. "Experience shows that trying to keep the speed above 10 feet on a consistent basis usually causes difficult-to-manage turf problems and is not recommended."
   
   They need to be educated that focusing on greens speed is detrimental to the health of the greens. Bring in the "experts" from the USGA or use some of their education material.
   
   http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/management/greens/It-s-Time-We-Put-the-Green-Back-in-Green-Speed/
   
   http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/management/greens/S-P-E-E-D----Consider-What-s-Right-for-Your-Course/

   
   
   
   
10. Michael Vogt

    

    2 posts
    
    5/23/2013 1:05 PM

    Dru:
    
    A green speed surcharge will immediately be imposed-the charge is an additional $10.00 per member per month or $5.00 per round per player. That should generate enough money to fund additional maintenance.
    
    Good Luck

    
    
    
    
11. Michael Posey

    

    0 posts
    
    5/23/2013 10:05 PM

    With the mowing technology, lightweight rollers, and information we have on nutrient and moisture control 10 doesn't seem to be an irrational request. Lean up the N, get on the Primo growing degree program, and go to mow a day/ roll a day rotation in the heat of the summer. You should be able to mow at .120 to .130 with solid rollers (flex 21 heights) and maintain that. Just be glad their not asking for 11 or 12+ in the summer. With A1 in Birmingham I have rarely ever had to go over .120". The Primo GDD made the biggest difference of anything on mine.

    
    
    
    
12. Jason Knuutila

    

    0 posts
    
    5/24/2013 6:05 PM

    Have the same expectations and a small crew and budget.
    
    We topdress lightly every 2 weeks and water in with wetting agent application(Fleet). Apply Primo at different rates and follow the 200 degree day rule of thumb. Roll every day, but only around pins. Will vent greens 1 x/month with Maredo heads during the growing season to prevent sealing off of the surface. Last but not least get a soil moisture meter to learn how much water you really need to put out.
    
    I'd look at this as an opportunity. If you need anything (eg. more labor, more fertilizer, more fungicides, more sand, better irrigation system, better growing media) this is an opportunity to inform them and get some support.
    
    Green speeds daily are between an 11 & 12. If they are a 10'6" they notice and basically I chuck more sand ASAP.

    
    
    
    
13. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    5/24/2013 8:05 PM

    Thanks for all the info everyone. I have ,so far, turned this into a good opportunity to increase our budget.

    
    
    
    
14. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    6/22/2013 7:06 PM

    So I have been able to achieve 9.5-10' daily. Everything I was doing was correct but the weather was uncooperative until a couple weeks ago. Up and down temps really suck!

    
    
    
    
15. Michael Posey

    

    0 posts
    
    6/29/2013 1:06 PM

    Nothing you can do about the weather. Just stay the course on your program to keep the speeds up and if you have greens that are alive and 9.5 at the end of August and your neighbors are rolling 11 on dead grass, then hopefully that will turn the membership your direction.

    
    
    
    
16. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    6/29/2013 8:06 PM

    Michael Posey said: Nothing you can do about the weather. Just stay the course on your program to keep the speeds up and if you have greens that are alive and 9.5 at the end of August and your neighbors are rolling 11 on dead grass, then hopefully that will turn the membership your direction.

    
    
    Right you are.

    
    
    
    
17. Scot Haynes

    

    0 posts
    
    10/29/2013 10:10 AM

    It could be worse, you could have my situation. Monday were closed, Tuesday they have to be 11's, Wednesday is senior day so upper 11's, Thursday is ladies day so back down to low 11's, Friday,Saturday, Sunday 12/13's. To make matters worse I can't start a flipping mower near any houses until 7:00 am. So I have to be really creative with my mow/roll orders. Oh, by the way play starts at 7:00 or 7:30, depending on the time of year. So, I feel your pain.
    One more thing, my GM asked me a few weeks ago to speed them up for his match on Friday, so consequently I triple rolled for the first time in my career. They were 13/14's. Sheessh!

    
    
    
    
18. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    10/29/2013 10:10 AM

    And we wonder why people keep quitting the game because it's too hard?
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
19. Harlyn Goldman

    

    0 posts
    
    10/29/2013 11:10 AM

    Get a Dremel tool and use it to enlarge the cavity the ball sits in on the meter. Instant increase in green speed

    
    
    
    
20. Dru Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    11/4/2013 11:11 AM

    Harlyn Goldman, CGCS said: Get a Dremel tool and use it to enlarge the cavity the ball sits in on the meter. Instant increase in green speed

    
    Gotta love it!!

    
    
    
    
21. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    11/4/2013 2:11 PM

    You know the stupid thing about this greenspeed issue is that most golfers can't handle speeds above 10. When you think about it, how fun is it to take between 36 to 54 putts per round? Some do this and actually go away bragging about greenspeeds. I thought golf was supposed to be somewhat fun!

    
    
    
    
22. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    11/8/2013 9:11 AM

    It is amazing how a guy can come to me and brag about how fast the greens are and in the same sentence tells me how many four puts he took that day. Makes me scratch my head.