Hours to justify replacement? Cancel The title field is required!

1. Murray Ian W

   
   1/28/2012 10:01 AM

   We are a municipal course and are looking for your take on replacement of equipment regarding hours. We have kept equipment running what we feel is waay beyond what may be "standard" want your opinions.
   Greens Triplex (i.e. JD 2500B)
   Fairway Unit (i.e. Reelmaster 6500-D)
   Self Contained Batwing Mower (i.e. groundsmaster 4700-D)
   Trap Rake (i.e. Sand Pro 2020)
   Contour trim mower (i.e. Sidewinder)
   
   Please cut and paste list above and add your hours. If you go by years, please let me know how many months a year it is used so I may consider this since I am in Florida and you could be in Alaska.
   
   Also, any web site that provides this may assist.
   
   Thanks in advance,
   Ian Murray- Orangebrook Golf and Country Club

   
   
   
   
2. Henry Heinz

   

   0 posts
   
   1/28/2012 2:01 PM

   It would really depend on the preventative maintenance that has been done over the years, and how much your currently spending to keep it running. I have seen equipment with 4 and 5K hours preform like new, and then I have seen equipment with 1500 to 2k that was worn right out. Really good maintenance records are your only way to justify replacement needs as it shows your operating and repair cost for each piece of equipment.
   Probably not what you were looking for, but there's really no magical number for replacement as every situation is different.
   
   Regards,

   
   
   
   
3. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   1/29/2012 4:01 AM

   I will preface this with I am in the midst of purchasing a new fleet, but I think we are at the extreme end of useful life
   
   
   Greens Triplex (i.e. JD 2500B) [/color]- Toro 3100's for tee's 3 units with 5300hr, 4700, and 5150hr respectively
   Fairway Unit (i.e. Reelmaster 6500-D) we have 3 units not sure of years all with over 8000 hours!!!!!!
   Self Contained Batwing Mower (i.e. groundsmaster 4700-D) Toro 4500, 3 units all with 4500plus on each!!!
   Trap Rake (i.e. Sand Pro 2020) Toro 3040 2 units 5100plus hours each!
   Contour trim mower (i.e. Sidewinder)
   
   We are in Florida and the units get run pretty much year round...they all run and are still "in service" but they are toast, lift arms, bushings, bearings, decks and cutting units rotted to bits...These unit should have been replaced years ago, as the cost of ownership, down time and quality of cut all far out weighed the justification of a new unit.

   
   
   
   
4. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   1/29/2012 9:01 AM

   We have Toro 6500 fairway mowers, Toro 3250D triplexes and Toro 2020 sand pros all with close to 6,000 hours on them. We have sprayers now with 4,500 and 5,000 hours on them. Toro 328 rotary mowers pushing 5,000 hours. They all run just as good as our newer units. At my old course, we had a Toro 580D that had almost 10,000 hours on it before the engine blew. Like others said, worn out parts can be replaced if you catch them early enough. It all goes back to preventative maintenance. We do spend a lot in repair parts, but I can hop on any piece of equipment and expect it to run just as good as the day it was dropped off. We have very minimal downtime because of this. What we spend though comes nowhere close to what replacement costs would be for any of these units.
   
   We used to have the philosophy that after four years the unit would cost more in repairs then it was worth. We were leasing equipment for 48 months. After turning in equipment that had 2,500-3,000 hours on it that ran like it was brand new didn't make sense. It was hard to justify a $12,000/month lease payment when I had a few pieces I owned that ran great with 5,000 hours on it and not costing me nearly what the payment would be. So, this next package we're getting is being bought.

   
   
   
   
5. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   1/29/2012 11:01 AM

   I should mention, like Andy said its all about PM, our units only received maintenance if they broke down, and look how long they lasted...If we would have had a better PM program who knows what would could have done. We too are buying our new fleet.

   
   
   
   
6. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   1/29/2012 7:01 PM

   I have a question about some of your triplexes and such with the 5000 + hours, are they gas or diesel engines? And have you replaced some of those engines if they are gas? How about hydraulic pumps? We have triplexes with closing in on 4,000 hours and they are worn out, we think. I have wondered about some hydraulic motors and pumps, but we don't have the testing equipment and our mechanic isn't interested in obtaining testing equipment.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
7. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   1/30/2012 5:01 AM

   Mel,
   
   Some of our units are gas, some are diesel. We have had to replace several reel motors on the cutting heads regardless of hours on the machine. But, have yet to replace a hydraulic pump or engine. We follow the manufacturer's schedule for maintenance and utilize the oil they call for. We replace hoses as needed and are pretty thorough about inspecting and replacing before they blow. The diesel units were bought in 2004 and still run like a champ.
   
   We have had issues though with wheel motors and most recently, the hydraulic transmission on a 3 year old 6500D. Toro wanted $3,800 to replace. Fortunately we were able to get it repaired for $1,200 at a local repair shop. This machine has just over 3,000 hours on it, out of warranty and going back off-lease in May. Womp, womp, womp....
   
   I've always wondered about life of hydraulic pumps in colder climates. Since you guys start up more frequently when it is cold out side and the fluid is stiff, what repercussions does that have on the pumps and motors?

   
   
   
   
8. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   1/30/2012 11:01 AM

   We have had to replace one engine on Ransome G-Plex II at the 3300 hour mark. It was actually replaced with a engine with that had 2600 hours on it from another course's triplex that had received a new engine (engine now has 3500 hours on it). The mower itself now has 4150 hours. When I got here 8 years ago we had 626 hours on the machine, and with-in a year we were really on top of engine oil changes and services. Hydraulic PM was lagging behind with filter changes and oil changes, and it still does. This machine now is a dog when we transport (I hate getting on it to take it to the fuel it across the yard), we have made some adjustments to the pedal, but it is 3-wheel drive and I wonder if some of the wheel motors are not performing. But we don't know unless we were to test them. We have in the past replaced a couple of hydraulic motors for the reels.
   
   My question to you guys now is, do you change out bushings and such on a regular basis or is it through inspection? I used to work at a course we changed out bushings on lift arms and such every other year, here it is when it is noticed which is sometimes too late. We really don't have an off season maintenance program, it seems like what the mechanic picks to work on. Of course he gets shared by 3 courses and really doesn't have a supervisor, so that is part of the problem. What I wish we really were doing was going over each piece of equipment in the winter, but all that sometimes happens is it gets pressure washed, greased and then stored unless it's due for a service.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
9. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   1/30/2012 11:01 AM

   Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
   
   My question to you guys now is, do you change out bushings and such on a regular basis or is it through inspection? I used to work at a course we changed out bushings on lift arms and such every other year, here it is when it is noticed which is sometimes too late. We really don't have an off season maintenance program, it seems like what the mechanic picks to work on. Of course he gets shared by 3 courses and really doesn't have a supervisor, so that is part of the problem. What I wish we really were doing was going over each piece of equipment in the winter, but all that sometimes happens is it gets pressure washed, greased and then stored unless it's due for a service.
   
   Mel

   
   
   We replace bushings, sleeves, bearings, etc...each year when we do a grind. If we don't feel it is going to make it another 12 months, it gets replaced. Bushings especially, are cheap compared to a lift arm that was allowed to go too long while worn out.

   
   
   
   
10. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    1/30/2012 11:01 AM

    Andy,
    
    That's what I wish we would do, or even every other year since we do have an off season compared to you guys.
    
    I guess I should also mention that our equipment repairs do not come out of our budgets or even golf that we can figure out, so it's not as simple as my going over the mechanics head and ordering the parts.
    
    Thanks, Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
11. Henry Heinz

    

    0 posts
    
    1/30/2012 12:01 PM

    Mel, I have had the testing equipment at two out of my last three places, and love testing hydraulics. One, it lets you know the integrity of the machine, also pinpoints the problems, saves you down time and money in the long haul. I use the test equipment as part of my maintenance practices, to keep relief and lift valve pressures set properly. You can do a lot when you have the right equipment. Your dealer will come out and run tests for as well, it may cost you, but still far less than a new piece of equipment if it's something simple and easy.