Irrigation head question Cancel The title field is required!

1. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   8/27/2012 11:08 AM

   I was checking out the coverage of the heads on one of my greens this morning. They are Rain Bird 51's valve-in head, noticed at times (very little to no breeze, flag on green wasn't moving) that I wasn't getting the coverage on some heads or I should say distance on the throw of the front nozzles. It seemed to be some what sporadic, as to what distance it was going, saw some head to head coverage so 68' but from another angle it might be 60'. I had turned on some extra heads on other fairways near me to make sure the pumps were running (VFD) constantly .
   
   My main question is, could worn nozzles cause the throw to be short? Could it be the speed of the head turning affect the throw? Is this the advantage of gear driving over impacts? More consistency with the speed of the rotation? I'm looking at putting new nozzles in these heads anyway, but if the head isn't shooting far enough with old nozzles I hate putting new nozzles in if it doesn't correct the problem. I'm guessing I need to use a pressure gauge to make sure they are putting out the 80 psi? And the only true solution to knowing what the system is doing is an audit?
   
   Any and all suggestions welcomed.
   
   Thanks! Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
2. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   8/27/2012 4:08 PM

   Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: I was checking out the coverage of the heads on one of my greens this morning. They are Rain Bird 51's valve-in head, noticed at times (very little to no breeze, flag on green wasn't moving) that I wasn't getting the coverage on some heads or I should say distance on the throw of the front nozzles. It seemed to be some what sporadic, as to what distance it was going, saw some head to head coverage so 68' but from another angle it might be 60'. I had turned on some extra heads on other fairways near me to make sure the pumps were running (VFD) constantly .
   
   My main question is, could worn nozzles cause the throw to be short? Could it be the speed of the head turning affect the throw? Is this the advantage of gear driving over impacts? More consistency with the speed of the rotation? I'm looking at putting new nozzles in these heads anyway, but if the head isn't shooting far enough with old nozzles I hate putting new nozzles in if it doesn't correct the problem. I'm guessing I need to use a pressure gauge to make sure they are putting out the 80 psi? And the only true solution to knowing what the system is doing is an audit?
   
   Any and all suggestions welcomed.
   
   Thanks! Mel

   
   
   Mel,
   
   I have the same heads. The cycling of the pumps will give you this look, even if you turned on a few more heads. Try taking a look at the same head when the pumps are running full steam under a heavy demand. I bet you will see a much more consistent throw. If the head is perfectly level and at the right height, then whatever maximum distance it is throwing it will throw during the cycle, unless the pumps themselves are shutting on and off. If the head is not perfectly level then it can appear that the distance is inconsistent.
   
   How old are the heads? We are in the process of rebuilding most of our's which have been in the ground 15 years.

   
   
   
   
3. Robert Crockett

   

   4 posts
   
   8/27/2012 4:08 PM

   Mel
   I have some of those old heads also. I've just changed a few over to the "Profile Nozzle". My biggest nozzle is the #24. They come with the front and back nozzle....There good and you can really tell a big difference. Distribution is fantastic....You can see the large stream looks like it's showering. I do know that rebate money is available if you replace all your nozzles w/in a certain time frame. California does it. I got mine from "Sports Turf Irrigation" 800-492-8378...www.sportsturfirrigation.com They also carry the upper and lower bearing kits.

   
   
   
   
4. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   8/27/2012 6:08 PM

   Ron, I'll try to get some more heads on and see if the throw is more consistent. Ours where put in the ground in 1993, we have switched a couple of greens over to 900's and have seen better coverage, when the spacing is consistent. That's been a problem on some greens too. The green I was checking this morning has one head that is not level at all, it's on the back slope of the green, the others appeared to be level, but I see what your saying and will double check to see how level the others really are.
   
   Robert, have just ordered some of those nozzle myself, was having a hard time getting the 13.5 back nozzle for new black and green nozzles for the 51's. So I ordered those two larger nozzle kits. That's why the question on the throws and possibly not having the heads operating at the 80 psi they are suppose to.
   
   Thanks!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
5. Michael Vogt

   

   2 posts
   
   8/28/2012 8:08 AM

   Mel:
   
   It was good meeting you a few weeks ago.
   
   In a case study several years ago a golf course had 3 crew members assigned to hand water greens. These crew members applied wetting agents along with hand watering on a regular schedule to rewet surface areas. During the hot and dry part of the year the number of crew member's hand watering greens grew at times to 7. After an audit pinpointed their problems (54% efficiency on greens) the following year after some minor repairs, even when hot and dry conditions were far worst, the hand watering crew never grew to more than 4 and wetting agent use dramatically reduced. Leveling of green heads and replacement of nozzles even on older 51s like yours probably will do the trick. Although you should put a stop watch on rotation time and check pressure on nozzles (pitot tube).
   
   An audit is a great tool to locate problem areas and create a baseline for measured improvements. I can drop off the cans next time in your area and you can take the measures. I'll input the measures and give you the results for a couple of your greens.

   
   
   
   
6. Bob Begey

   

   0 posts
   
   8/28/2012 10:08 AM

   Mel,
   
   I'm not familiar with those heads (I run Toro 730's), but thought I' d throw a thought at you anyway. I have had problems with debris in the irrigation lines plugging the "screens" at the base of the valve in head (restrict flow), assuming rainbirds have some type of screen? (maybe they don't?) Which have caused some undesireable patterns..Anyways just a thought..
   
   -Bob

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   8/28/2012 2:08 PM

   Bob, we have some strainer screens in the bottom valve, but nothing to throw off pressure I don't think for our patterns, although I could be wrong, if I assume (I know dangerous except it usually it's just me that gets made the ...) when I think these Rain Bird heads have any pressure issues it would be more in the tubes to the side valves or in those valve themselves with possible scale and such. That is why I think (assuming again) Rain Bird puts the adjustable screw up in the on/off switch to make internal pressure adjustments to the heads. Only some of the newer 51 cases have this option.
   
   Good to meet you too Michael, that would be great if you could do that, I could maybe do a green and possibly sell our administration on eventually purchasing our own test kit, heck with the 3 courses we have, we should already have those tools at our disposal.
   
   Thanks! Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   7/27/2017 11:07 AM

   We have almost (we've changed out 3 greens so far over the years) all of our greens on the course with Rain Bird 51 heads, (20 nozzles, despite the as-built saying greens have 18's). On of my goals was to change out the 51's at greens with Eagle gear driven heads (my preference is 900's because I can get my hand down in the case easier than 700's, plus our swing joints are already 1 1/2"). The ones we take off the greens would then be used as spares when we have cases (which we have some) broken on fairways and/or tees. (I'm cheap and don't like things going to waste, of course those broken cases out there are still working, hence why they are still in the ground.)
   
   Well joking with someone the other day on twitter, as they still had impact heads on their course, I had mentioned we did want to up grade, he said why? 51's were easy to work on, wasn't sure if he was being sarcastic or not, (yes, I'm like Sheldon Cooper). So that had me thinking, should I bother switching out the 51's? Or should I just look at replacing nozzles? I know I can still get cases and heads rebuilt by Sportsturf irrigation.
   
   Or will the Eagles do a better job watering greens? And if I switch to Eagles should I stay with 900's or go to 700's? Most of our spacing's are 68-71 feet in triangular patterns.
   
   Would sure like to get other opinions.
   
   Thanks!
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
9. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   7/27/2017 1:07 PM

   Mel,
   
   We have 51 drs on both of our courses. They are easy to work on but not as easy as the disposable gear drives where you just swap out the head. The 51's when they are operating right with new nozzles, and everything else like levelness, pressure, spacing rotation speed, etc is in order still has a great distribution profile. I know C.I.T. in California has done catch tests in the past and the distribution of the 51's was as good as it gets. but they are becoming archaic. I'm not sure if you can get the o.m. nozzles anymore. I was told I bought the last batch a few years ago. I tried the aftermarket nozzles and never had any luck with them.
   
   Based on distribution only I would stay with the 51's on greens if I could. In fact if we ever have to replace a greens head in the future but cannot find a replacement 51, I plan to pull one from the rough or fairway to use on the greens and then replace that head with a gear drive.

   
   
   
   
10. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    7/28/2017 8:07 AM

    Have either of you tried the under hill nozzles? I remember going to them about 10 years back and love the difference they made over my older rain bird nozzles!

    
    
    
    
11. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    7/28/2017 9:07 AM

    James Smith said: Have either of you tried the under hill nozzles? I remember going to them about 10 years back and love the difference they made over my older rain bird nozzles!

    
    
    I've tried some, don't know if the improvement was because the old nozzles were old, or changing sizes, haven't done enough changing yet to see. I guess an irrigation audit would be good, a before and after.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
12. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    7/28/2017 10:07 AM

    James Smith said: Have either of you tried the under hill nozzles? I remember going to them about 10 years back and love the difference they made over my older rain bird nozzles!

    
    
    I have and for whatever reason they did not work with our make of 51 drs. After we installed them the heads would stop turning. We tried everything in the book to remedy this but eventually gave up after looking at the drive nozzle of the Underhill and the Rainbird side by side. The Rainbird drive nozzle is drilled a bit off-center and thus the stream hits the impact arm correctly and the head will then turn. If you look at the Underhill drive nozzle it is centered and it misses the impact arm (it actually goes through the gap in the arm) and the head would not turn.
    
    I'm not sure why others like yourself have luck with these nozzles and we did not. I talked to Rainbird and they told me, if I recall correctly, that there were different weight impact arms manufactured over the years and maybe this played into the equation. I really wish the Underhills worked for us as I think, when they work, they make a good nozzle. Maybe I will try another set at the other course which has newer (2007) 51drs.

    
    
    
    
13. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    7/28/2017 4:07 PM

    Ronald Conard, CGCS said:

    James Smith said: Have either of you tried the under hill nozzles? I remember going to them about 10 years back and love the difference they made over my older rain bird nozzles!

    
    
    I have and for whatever reason they did not work with our make of 51 drs. After we installed them the heads would stop turning. We tried everything in the book to remedy this but eventually gave up after looking at the drive nozzle of the Underhill and the Rainbird side by side. The Rainbird drive nozzle is drilled a bit off-center and thus the stream hits the impact arm correctly and the head will then turn. If you look at the Underhill drive nozzle it is centered and it misses the impact arm (it actually goes through the gap in the arm) and the head would not turn.
    
    I'm not sure why others like yourself have luck with these nozzles and we did not. I talked to Rainbird and they told me, if I recall correctly, that there were different weight impact arms manufactured over the years and maybe this played into the equation. I really wish the Underhills worked for us as I think, when they work, they make a good nozzle. Maybe I will try another set at the other course which has newer (2007) 51drs.

    
    
    We ordered the Profile front nozzles for the 51's, but we have back nozzles (11.5 and 13's) from Rain Bird, it's been so long ago, I don't know if we ordered those separately or they came as sets from Sportsturf Irrigation? I didn't see any back nozzles from Profile in my inventory of nozzles, and noticed Sportsturf doesn't have profile nozzles listed for Rain Bird 51 heads in their newest catalog?
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO