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New Bunker Construction Techniques

22 posts
  1. Joshua Sawyer
    Joshua Sawyer avatar
    0 posts
    5/23/2017 1:05 PM
    Has anyone had issues with the newer bunker drainage techniques as it relates to covering the drain lines? I am working on renovation planning and have not yet identified which method I feel is best. Any good, bad, or ugly? Or better yet, anyone put in one of the newer techniques and had to replace with something else? I have heard of perched water tables/algae/drainage issues with time, but I don't know how much merit there is to these stories.



  2. David Stout
    David Stout avatar
    0 posts
    5/23/2017 4:05 PM
    Please elaborate on what you mean by newer drainage techniques.



  3. Joshua Sawyer
    Joshua Sawyer avatar
    0 posts
    5/24/2017 7:05 AM
    Don't really want to call out any of the products, but I am most interested in the performance of Capillary Concrete and Better Billy Bunker. I would consider them the front runners on the market. I am trying to do some due diligence to make sure I am not missing anything. Thanks.



  4. Brian Nettz
    Brian Nettz avatar
    0 posts
    5/24/2017 12:05 PM
    Klingstone. Why would you hire a certified contractor to make you a liner when you can spray one on in house in less than two hours on a large bunker? You can also make your own repairs easily. I've got over 40 bunkers with Klingstone. I don't understand all the hype about these other products.

    We've done all our bunker construction in house over the last six years. We use Klingstone for our liner and use Turf Drain in the trenches. Spray trenches as well. Simply backfill with sand. No pea gravel worries.

    Brian Nettz
    Presidio Golf Course



  5. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    5/24/2017 3:05 PM
    Ditto about the Klingstone. Easy application, can be done in-house, save money, easy repair (if needed), great product support, etc.

    My $0.02...



  6. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    5/25/2017 10:05 AM
    What about frost heaving and cracking? Surely there will be some in areas that see freezing conditions. What will it be like to remove and replace?

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  7. Brian Nettz
    Brian Nettz avatar
    0 posts
    5/25/2017 1:05 PM
    Christopher Thuer, CGCS said: What about frost heaving and cracking? Surely there will be some in areas that see freezing conditions. What will it be like to remove and replace?


    I know a guy with Klingstone bunkers in Minneapolis. Going strong on almost 20 years. The frost line in MN is 36". It breaks with a shovel if you need to make modifications.

    I'm not saying it's the perfect liner, I'm saying it's the best right now IMO. The perfect liner does not exist.



  8. Douglas Hoeh
    Douglas Hoeh avatar
    0 posts
    5/26/2017 7:05 AM
    We have Klingstone on one course here in Northern Michigan. It has held up well for over 4 years now. No issue with heaving.

    We also did a test bunker for a new product called Porous Pave. It is ground up truck tires and some aggregate held together with their special epoxy. I have to say that this may be a game changer. It drains better than anything I have ever seen, quick to install, and sets up firm so contamination is not a concern. The rubber makes is soft so if you get thin with sand there is no damage to a club nor any issue with a rake tearing or damaging the product. I had it installed late last fall and so far I am impressed. The installation took 45 minutes to do a 1600sqft bunker, let it set up 24 hours, add sand and it is done.

    Doug Hoeh
    Treetops Resort



  9. Joshua Sawyer
    Joshua Sawyer avatar
    0 posts
    5/26/2017 8:05 AM
    The more I look into the options, the more I like the idea of having a drainage system without stone. If you are using a Klingstone application, is anyone using a drainage pipe product that can be backfilled with strait sand?



  10. Gordon Seliga
    Gordon Seliga avatar
    4 posts
    5/26/2017 11:05 AM
    Joshua Sawyer said: The more I look into the options, the more I like the idea of having a drainage system without stone. If you are using a Klingstone application, is anyone using a drainage pipe product that can be backfilled with strait sand?


    We use the 2" micro slit pipe. The same stuff used in greens for bypass drainage ("XGD" , "Golf Preservations" style drainage.) No filter, no gravel just sand.



  11. Brian Nettz
    Brian Nettz avatar
    0 posts
    5/26/2017 1:05 PM
    Joshua Sawyer said: The more I look into the options, the more I like the idea of having a drainage system without stone. If you are using a Klingstone application, is anyone using a drainage pipe product that can be backfilled with strait sand?


    Yes. Perhaps I wasn't clear. We Klingstone the trenches and install the flat turf drain pipe. Then backfill with straight bunker sand.



  12. Joshua Sawyer
    Joshua Sawyer avatar
    0 posts
    5/27/2017 9:05 AM
    Thanks guys...



  13. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    5/28/2017 10:05 AM
    Klingstone makes the surface impermeable correct? I am mostly curious about the other methods that leave pore spaces for water to penetrate. If freezing water in cracks makes rocks, concrete, and anything else holding water, explode, why wouldn't some of the bunker floor products hold some water and break up over time?

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  14. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    5/29/2017 6:05 AM
    I'm in the wet south and have considered the Klingstone but after my research I determined that either BBB or Capillary concrete would be a better way to go (but now I am intrigued with the rubber although it concerns me as to what this may do from leaching into ponds over time). it just makes better sense for my course to have the 2" layer of gravel where the water can move faster towards a drain line to get out of the bunker faster. I can get 1"-4" of rain in 1-3 hours and having to wait for the water to drain out just through the sand can take time.
    I think you may need to consider your own weather restrictions when making this decision.

    I know a few courses that have done the BBB method and love it. one of them had figured out ahead of the project that the savings in labor to keep their sand pushed up on their large lips alone would pay for the renovation over a short period of time.



  15. Alan Fitzgerald
    Alan Fitzgerald avatar
    0 posts
    6/7/2017 7:06 AM
    I've become a bit of an expert on these since I'm involved with one of them. Full disclosure as well as still being a superintendent, I import Blinder Bunker to the US from the UK.

    Hopefully this helps answer the original question:

    Each product has its merits, you'll need to research them (ie talk to those who have them) to decide which is best. Since it was mentioned, I'll cover Klingstone first. It is a nice product but it does not provide a drainage layer - it prevents soil contamination. Some like this as it prevents the subsoil from washing so there is no risk of contamination. Ie it basically creates a tub to hold the sand and keep it clean. There is some concern about what happens under the porous liners but at least of them has a spec to help prevent any issues.

    I'm not 100% sure about the Linebacker liner but I believe it is somewhat similar in concept to Klingstone.

    The others provide a porous layer for the water to run through. This increases drainage volume and prevents the sand filling up with water which greatly reduces to eliminates washouts. They are broken into two categories - solid and flexible.

    The solid ones are Better Billy Bunker (sprayed stone), Capillary Concrete (porous concrete) and Matrix (porous asphalt). The flexible one is Blinder Bunker (crumb rubber). All these products have all been around since 2008 or so - at least in trial form. Porous Pave is new to the bunker business and a sort of Hybrid of Blinder and Better Billy Bunker. All of these products provide a seamless drainage layer.

    These products will create a perched water table just like a USGA green as you have a finer material over a coarse one. Just like in a green situation the sand needs to be speced to bridge the liner also to ensure it doesn't block it up. The sand will need to be tested with the liner to see what it's release curve is. Depending on that, the depth of the sand may need to be modified to ensure it releases the water so you don't get algae etc. The perched water can also benefit as it can be used to manage how much water is held so that the sand doesn't dry down too much either. Since these products are porous they are designed to go right over the drain lines.

    These liners can only work provided the bunker is designed properly. Ideally the less water entering the bunker the better and the slopes of the faces should always be less than the angle of repose of the sand as if they are greater then nothing can keep the sand up on the faces.

    Depending on the bunker design and native soil conditions the bunker may not need a liner, so these are not for everyone but are great tools in reducing the cost of long term bunker maintenance.



  16. Alan Fitzgerald
    Alan Fitzgerald avatar
    0 posts
    6/7/2017 7:06 AM
    James Smith said: ......(but now I am intrigued with the rubber although it concerns me as to what this may do from leaching into ponds over time)......


    I can only speak for Blinder but it is 100% recycled material so is safe to use with no worries on environmental contamination.



  17. Joshua Sawyer
    Joshua Sawyer avatar
    0 posts
    6/8/2017 10:06 AM
    Good information. Have you seen or heard any concerns about the sub grade below the permeable liners and erosion over time? A very good point about the porous materials allowing for more water to move through the sand. Thanks.



  18. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    6/8/2017 1:06 PM
    Alan, great post! thanks for chiming in! I am always interested in newer ideas when they come out. I really like the recycled rubber idea for many reasons. first is that if you lose any during transport to your bunkers it will not ruin a mower reel. I also like the idea of a club bouncing off of it instead of rock or concrete if the bunker got thin in an area. I'm not sure about my sand bridging the gap on it though, but I am sure that would depend on the spec's of the rubber. I know mine had been tested for the pea gravel method and passed so not sure if that would help with the rubber product.

    Being that it is rubber (possibly tires) I am concerned about contamination to my ponds through leaching (not sure if it is an issue or not) because as of right now my course is not restricted by epa very much but who knows what may happen down the road and the thought of having to remove liners is scary for a low budget course.

    I would be interested in anything I could do in house due to my low budgets but also a system that would allow us to do them over time but still cost efficient.



  19. Alan Fitzgerald
    Alan Fitzgerald avatar
    0 posts
    6/9/2017 7:06 AM
    Joshua Sawyer said: Good information. Have you seen or heard any concerns about the sub grade below the permeable liners and erosion over time? A very good point about the porous materials allowing for more water to move through the sand. Thanks.


    I haven't heard of any issues under any of the liners. As far as I know all the specs call for the subsoil to be compacted, which in itself helps prevent issues - although that depends on the native soil being compact-able. I know that at least one of the liners has a spec over and above compacting the sub base to ensure that washouts don't happen.



  20. Chuck Barber
    Chuck Barber avatar
    0 posts
    6/22/2017 5:06 AM
    We began rebuilding bunkers in spring 2016 and decided to build flat(ish) bunkers without ANY liner of any kind. The theory being: keep water from sheeting in to the bunker, keep grass/sand slopes reasonable, do NOT exceed the angle of repose for the sand on the flashes and use good (not expensive) sand. We use Pioneer sand from Waupaca WI at $50/ton. We don't have washouts that require anything more than the rakes that are already in them. We use gravel in the drains. However, the key to keeping it in the trench is to make sure no gravel gets to the top of the trench and has 8" or so of sand over top of the gravel in the trench. Leibold built them for us and they have performed really well in years 1 and 2. This saves from having to make repairs and saving the installation costs.



  21. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    6/22/2017 7:06 AM
    Chuck Barber said: We began rebuilding bunkers in spring 2016 and decided to build flat(ish) bunkers without ANY liner of any kind. The theory being: keep water from sheeting in to the bunker, keep grass/sand slopes reasonable, do NOT exceed the angle of repose for the sand on the flashes and use good (not expensive) sand. We use Pioneer sand from Waupaca WI at $50/ton. We don't have washouts that require anything more than the rakes that are already in them. We use gravel in the drains. However, the key to keeping it in the trench is to make sure no gravel gets to the top of the trench and has 8" or so of sand over top of the gravel in the trench. Leibold built them for us and they have performed really well in years 1 and 2. This saves from having to make repairs and saving the installation costs.

    This has been my approach at my club. so far no budget for liners so we basically remove any flashed lips and try to reroute the water away from the bunkers. their flat with about 8" of sand in them. they drain great for about 5-8 years where contamination will take over. Due to budget restrictions we are currently removing about 30%-40% of the sand on the course. by this I mean we are either taking out bunkers or making them smaller. some are being remodeled to have about 60% less sqft of bunker area by either making grass bunkers next to them or mounding. Its a challenge to figure out exactly how much you can remove before ruining a hole but the truth is if you cannot afford to upkeep them you are better without them. I know removing 40% of the sand/bunkers is a savings for us of over $40,000 just in rebuilding them not to mention caring for them daily and down the road.



  22. Chuck Barber
    Chuck Barber avatar
    0 posts
    6/24/2017 8:06 AM
    When we are done with rebuilding our bunkers we will have the same number of bunkers (60). The sand area will go from 110,000 square feet to 60,000 square feet or so. Further, we can add bunkers where we need to down the road without having to break the bank in their construction or in their care.



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