Take All Patch on Tifeagle Cancel The title field is required!

1. Edmonson Chris A

   
   1/20/2012 9:01 AM

   I have been fighting disease on my tifeagle greens for a couple of years. I sent a sample to Texas A&M last year and the report said it was take all patch and also root knot nematodes. I treated the greens with heritage with no luck and I do not know of a treatment for the nematodes. They were getting worse through the fall. We are dormant now but I'm wanting to get a plan of action when we green up. It started with some very small patches on one of my greens. Now it has totally covered that green and most of our other greens have a patch here or there. I don't want the other greens to get as bad as the first one. The playability of the green is fine but they look terrible. Any thoughts?

   
   
   
   
2. Wahlin Scott B

   
   1/20/2012 10:01 AM

   I have heard this helps with nematodes.
   
   [img">http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll284/scottcgcs/3336plusnematode.jpg[/img">

   
   
   
   
3. Mark Van Lienden

   

   14 posts
   
   1/20/2012 10:01 AM

   I have found thiophanate methyl also worked on bent grass even after many other products failed.

   
   
   
   
4. Edmonson Chris A

   
   1/20/2012 1:01 PM

   Thanks guys. I will give it a try.

   
   
   
   
5. Wahlin Scott B

   
   1/20/2012 2:01 PM

   Give Jason at Cleary a call. He is a smart guy.

   
   
   
   
6. James Smith

   

   112 posts
   
   1/20/2012 2:01 PM

   years ago when I had 328 I had a bad case of take all patch and the only thing that would stop it was Rubigan and I mean it stopped it in it's tracks. The problem though is that it also stops your turf from growing or stunts it to some extent so it would need to be used when your turf is at it's peak before the decline takes too great or a hold. I found out when we sprayed before overseeding and did some research and found some old Rubigan lables that listed TAP on the lable, did not see it on the newer lables though.

   
   
   
   
7. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   1/20/2012 5:01 PM

   Take-all can overwinter in the roots and soil as well. You might want to consider a spring application of Rubigan, Banner Maxx or Bayleton to help clean it up. Follow a summer routine of Heritage or Insignia rotated with Cleary's 3336F. Make sure the volume of water you are applying is sufficient to get the product in the crown area of the plant. BGD likes high pH, so quit applying Calcium that can increase pH, and look at Ammonium Sulfate or Iron Sulfate to lower pH. Avoid Urea or Nitrate sources of fert, including Potassium Nitrate. But, apply a 1:1 N:K with all you do. Raise the height, quit verticutting and be very careful when topdressing to not bruise the leaf blades.

   
   
   
   
8. William Sturm

   

   4 posts
   
   1/21/2012 8:01 AM

   Have you done any grub control? We had a situation where on many of our greens there would be an isolated area, usually on the edge, where the turf was weak and thinning. We were hand fertilizing weekly and syringing just to keep it alive. I sent samples in and received the same results as what you received. We saw no difference in the turf after treating with fungicides and nematicides. Long story short. After treating greens with an insecticide for surface feeders, I noticed a large population of Black Ataenius adults, more than 100 in one of the weak areas. I figured our problem was probably from where these insects were feeding as grubs, and I just happened to zap them at the adult stage. We then treated for grubs, the greens filled in nicely and we have had no more problems.

   
   
   
   
9. Kenneth Ingram

   

   18 posts
   
   1/23/2012 6:01 AM

   Andy is right about soil acidification. Increase soil manganese levels as well with manganese sulfate. Watch any bio-BS products as some of them have surprisingly high pH. Are these "new" greens? Kenneth Ingram, UMD.

   
   
   
   
10. Edmonson Chris A

    
    1/24/2012 5:01 PM

    We applied Rubigan, Prostar, and Heritage. I also put down some Ammonium Sulfate. The greens are 12 years old and I've had the take all patch on them the last year and a half (progressively getting worse). I will do a soil sample next month and put together a game plan. The fungicides had zero effect for control. I will check the ph but it has always been around 6.7 or so. I've heard so many different and contrasting methods of control. Some say fertilize heavy while others say don't fertilize. Some say to verticut and aerifiy and others say not to because of the stress. Not to mention the golfers telling me about the "fairy ring" and "dollar spot" we have on the greens. I wish it was fairy ring or dollar spot. I think I will look more at the fertilizer/maintenance side of the equation. If I can get the plant strong enough, then maybe the disease side of the equation will take care of itself. Thanks for the input guys.

    
    
    
    
11. Baker Daniel

    
    1/26/2012 2:01 PM

    I just fought this battle on my TifEagle with GGG and Sting Nematodes. It took me the better part of a year to get my head around it but I have a plan that is working for me. The basics are something like this:
    
    1. Water - the nematodes are killing the ability of the plant to take up water. Make sure you dont let them get too dry in the summer.
    2. Fertility - I used to be a 3lbs granular and the rest a high end foliar spoon fed. Now I go with Ammonium Sulfate early in the season and 3-0-10 Solucal at .25# biweekly through the summer. In the spray tank there is the normal stuff as well as more Ca and K every week than I ever thought I would put out.
    3. Salt Mgmt - This may or may not apply to you but we have terrible water (pH of 8.9) and have to flush our greens regularly (biweekly in the summer) We use a synthetic acid or a humic acid to flush followed by Ca, Mg, and K replacement the following day.
    4. Cultural Practices - Manage your thatch properly. GGG loves a good thatchy green. As long as they can stand it, and sometimes when they look like they can't, I'm grooming/verticutting. Sand goes down relatively heavy two weeks on and one week off (mechanic hates me for it too).
    5. Nematodes - try your best to grow through them. I don't recommend too many products but the Rhizogen 6-2-6 Fore Turf goes out every time I aerify. It has bacillus firmus just like Nortica and we have seen good results. I also put the Nortica out mid February and maybe in late August this year. I am hopefull that we get the supplemental label for Avid and that it may work.
    6. Supplemental Nutrition - weak areas get special care. I mix 1 acre of a special mix to help my worst areas along. I have seen a noticable difference since we started this.
    7. Biostimulants - pick one or two you believe in and get on a regular program. Add that to the special mix to supplement. I believe there is science behind some of what is out there and have seen noticable results.
    8. Fungicides - I do preventative Bayleton and Banner in the early spring and come with Heritage or Honor around both aerifications. T-Methyl is my fall back for if I have an unforseen ourbreak in the late summer/fall.
    
    If you want more specifics, shoot me an email. It's a royal pain in the butt, but can be overcome.

    
    
    
    
12. Edmonson Chris A

    
    2/2/2012 11:02 AM

    Thanks Daniel. I may be in touch. I'm getting soil test done this week and will move on from there. We put out Nortica in the fall for the first time this year. I did not sand as much last year as in years past because of my mechanic complaining, but I have already told him to get ready for this year because we are going to sand more often.

    
    
    
    
13. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    2/3/2012 6:02 AM

    I am very surprised that I see no mention of ways to ease the stress to the turf.
    
    Now when I had it it was on 328 but things I had to do were more stress relief related then anything.
    
    Raise your HOC! I know members love fast greens but cutting them very short also stresses them out. A very surprising fact that I learned the hard way this last year was that you need not cut Tif Eagle below .125" to keep them fast. Having some issues with one of my mowers scalping I raised the HOC to .150" this last year which almost always meant my greens would stimp around an 8. After about three weeks at this HOC I had started getting reports from my members about how fast the greens were and very few reports on them being slow. Hearing this made me to decide to leave them there for a while. I was impressed on how much better they not only rolled but looked. The results threw me for a loop because I had always gone on the assumption that my greens needed to be cut at least at .125" to make my members happy.
    
    I told you that for a reason. raising your HOC allows for your greens to reduce the stress levels from weather related conditions as well as traffic. Reducing stress will also reduce the TAP.
    
    There are other stress reducers you may use such as needle tining the greens once per month. rolling them instead of cutting them a few days a week (just pick your slower days). 1/2lb of ammonia sulfate per week on stressed or affected areas. spiking your greens a few days a week. I would also do a lot of hand watering to ensure that they get enough water to survive (thrive) without soaking your other areas around the greens.
    
    You can go on and on with different approaches but remember waiting to do something already puts you behind so if you think of something that may help just do it.
    
    The most important thing is that TAP just does not go away. you may be able to suppress it but it will be there, it is just waiting for the proper stress related conditions to pop back up.

    
    
    
    
14. Edmonson Chris A

    
    9/25/2012 4:09 PM

    Well here is an update on our greens. I sent a sample to turf diagnostics and it came back as a fairy ring. I treated for it with no luck. So it has been "diagnosed" as take all patch and fairy ring. I think they are both wrong. The disease has been really bad this year. I spent a fortune on fungicides with no luck. I conducted a sample plot study on my putting green using Heritage, Banner, Humalfa, and Roots 1 2 3. The Humalfa test plot looked the best after a few weeks, followed by the Roots 1 2 3. The Heritage plot showed no difference and the Banner plot had a negative response. I talked to Dr. Martin at Clemson and showed him some pictures and he said it definitely was not a fairy ring. He called it "mini ring" and said he knows of some courses in the southeast that have this disease and have not found a control with fungicides.
    
    I purchased some humalfa but it will be difficult to apply to all the greens at a rate that showed a positive response in my test plot. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good greens grade organic fertilizer? I have used milorganite but it can be a mess on the greens rollers. What is working for y'all?

    
    
    
    
15. Baker Daniel

    
    9/26/2012 11:09 AM

    Good to get the update. I happen to fight Mini Ring as well. Also get inky spot but thats another story.
    
    Best greens grade organics I have come across come from Agrium/Direct Solutions. I put out the 5-3-2 with Prospect three times this year and had great response. They also have some with some controlled release N that has a higher analysis. Don't expect a quick green up with these but a slow consistent feed.
    
    The Syngenta fungicide program works fairly well for Mini Ring. I don't follow it to a T, but use it as an outline. This year we had one flare up and we pitchforked and spot treated with Heritage + Prostar and got it under control. I'm not looking forward to managing for this disease over the long term. It really sucks when the rings show up and by then it is too late to really get ahead of it.
    
    Also, I have had success with both Avid and Multiguard on my Nematodes. I have roots now that I never dreamed of thanks to the combination of those two chemicals and the Prospect on fert and in the spray tank.

    
    
    
    
16. Edmonson Chris A

    
    9/28/2012 1:09 PM

    Thanks Daniel. I will take a look at what you are using.

    
    
    
    
17. Churchill Kevin

    
    10/17/2012 12:10 PM

    I agree with William.....same exact thing happened to me. Came back as Bermudagrass Decline. Didn't see any results until I applied Merit. Turf's recovering, but now I'm trying to stay ahead of the overlapping generations. My problem is Hunting Billbugs. Lots of adults on the surface in the late afternoon and early mornings since I've been treating for them. Even see their tracks in the dew coming from little sand mounds leading to the walking adult in the morning. Try a systemic grub control, as the most damaging stage for billbugs is at the early larvae stage, when the grub may be inside of the stem.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Kevin