Transition zone Ultradwarfs vs bent Cancel The title field is required!

1. Reece Jody D

   
   9/9/2016 2:09 PM

   Just curious. I've talked to several guys about their experience with conversion from bentgrass greens to ultradwarfs and have gotten a lot of good information about the do's and don'ts. What I haven't come across is one that has said making the change to bermudagrass was the worst thing we've ever done. Surely someone out there has a horror story to share?

   
   
   
   
2. David Stone

   

   9 posts
   
   9/12/2016 6:09 PM

   I have not heard of any course that has switched from bentgrass to ultradwarf say they made a mistake. I would guess there may be some course somewhere but I have not heard of it. I will say I have been surprised that we are spending more money on ultradwarf management than we did on bentgrass. This is primarily due to pythium problems I would not have believed would be an issue (I never had nor did I spray for Pythium in the 30+ years of bentgrass at the same course). The Pythium is a problem in the fall, perhaps winter and in the spring. Anytime the grass is not growing very much it seems to be a potential problem. In my opinion they also require more fertilizer than bentgrass (some may disagree with me on this). Also I have found the ultradwarfs require more water than the bentgrass did. They will not only loose color but thin out if they stay too dry for very long. Not as bad as bad wilt on bentgrass but still damaging. I will say it seems those like me who push them the most are having more of the disease issues than lower budget courses that are not maintaining super fast green speeds.
   
   That is the bad. Now for the good. We are producing a product far superior for more months of the year than we ever could with bentgrass. By far superior I mean very fast, smooth greens that golfers seem to want (even though they do not score as well). It is nothing for us to have the greens running 13 all summer. We can almost give them these speeds year round. They are the worst in spring when new growth starts and especially if there are any issues coming out of winter where pushing them for speed would be bad for the grass.
   
   David Stone
   The Honors Course
   Chattanooga, Tn.

   
   
   
   
3. Wally Dowe

   

   0 posts
   
   9/13/2016 5:09 PM

   We switched from bentgrass to mini verde 8 years ago. I would agree with some of what David mentioned. Ultradwarfs do require more money than bent to maintain. Ultradwarfs do require more water then bent. The UD's will decline when pushed to extremes on dry soils. 2 - 4 minutes on the ultradwarfs on a hot dry afternoon does wonders for the overall appearance of the grass. We use less fertility on the UD's than bent. We apply approximately 2 - 3 lbsN/1000 per year on the UD and we get approximately another 2 lbsN per year from our effluent water. The UD's require ALOT of work. If there is not sand in the canopy from topdressing we are performing cultural practices such as grooming, brushing and or verti-cutting almost everyday. In season we verti-cut 2-4 times per week. UD's like frequent and light cultural practices. If you beat them up too much they will let you know. We also have Bermuda decline on our greens which requires regular fungicide treatments. We do a greens foliar every week with Primo almost year round. Again, the UD's like things in small but frequent doses. We do not overseed our greens, which in my opinion and our situation is the best way to manage this grass. Our subsurface greens profile and drainage is not even close to ideal and the UD's are able to grow on a less than ideal growing medium better than bentgrass.
   
   As David mentioned, we are able to produce a quality putting surface for more months out of the year than we could with bentgrass.
   
   Wally Dowe
   Ventana Canyon
   Tucson, AZ

   
   
   
   
4. Reece Jody D

   
   9/14/2016 1:09 PM

   Thanks David and Wally. Our situation is way too many summers of bentgrass on push up greens built in 1958. Coupled with the fact that we are not allowed to aerate enough and aggressively enough to achieve a 20% surface area impact each year. Have no drainage under that either so just a 4" bowl of wet sand and organic matter, and by July dead roots for the grass to grow in. Would much rather put the work in with light verticuttings and light topdressings to be able to produce better quality, than spend all the time and effort just trying to keep them alive. Its really frustrating these years when no matter what you do you end up with a lot of dead grass and spend all fall and early spring trying regrow bentgrass to sacrifice the next July.

   
   
   
   
5. Jeffrey Whitmire

   

   0 posts
   
   9/14/2016 4:09 PM

   Sounds like you are in the perfect situation for conversion.

   
   
   
   
6. Robert Hall

   

   0 posts
   
   9/14/2016 10:09 PM

   dont do it, stick with bent
   
   Best,
   Yankee Bob

   
   
   
   
7. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   9/15/2016 6:09 AM

   In my experience, the UD Bermudas have similar fertility and fungicide regimes as Bent. Where the trade off is you end up doing more work during the day verticutting, topdressing and grooming rather than staying into the evening wilt watching with bent. As Wally mentioned, wilt on bermuda is quickly taken care of with a light syringe of the overheads. Dormant bermuda also makes a great putting surface and can provide some outrageous putting speeds if not properly managed going into the winter months. Where overtime with Bent goes down, budget for sand for the UDs goes up.
   
   And depending on where you are located, there will be some years where winter kill will ravage your bermuda greens, while the bent guys are looking like heroes. This is also true with some summers where you will look like the hero while they are losing their jobs.