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1. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   11/15/2011 2:11 PM

   [Portion of message removed in conjunction with GCSAA's forum policies.]
   
   Could Bermuda do well in a climate where the night time temps are 60 F and the daytime highs are 80 F all year round or would it go dormant?
   
   I was in Nairobi last year and it seemed to me the grasses were warm season but they were not dormant...and those temperature are pretty much consistent year round.
   
   Any thoughts?

   
   
   
   
2. Wahlin Scott B

   
   11/15/2011 2:11 PM

   I have been in South Florida for so long that my memory could have faded regarding dormancy. I think the rule-of-thumb is that Bermudagrass goes dormant when the soil temps reach 50 degrees F.

   
   
   
   
3. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   11/15/2011 3:11 PM

   Now be careful Red, Jr. might not hire you when you retire to Florida and your looking for part-time work for the free golf.
   
   Hey Jr. I've got another 30 years and then I will be sending you my application.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
4. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   11/15/2011 3:11 PM

   It might look funky, but it would probably survive at those temps. Hybrid Bermuda grass has an African genetic ancestor. Hybrid Bermudagrass = Common bermudagrass species (Cynodon dactylon) and an 18-chromosome African bermudagrass (C. transvaalensis). 'Tifway' was discovered as a 27-chromosome plant, appearing first as a seedling grown from a shipment of 36-chromosome bermudagrass seed from Africa. Because of its 27 chromosomes and its fine texture, 'Tifway' was deduced to have had an unknown 18-chromosome male parent, apparently C. transvaalensis.

   
   
   
   
5. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   11/15/2011 7:11 PM

   pale said: First, Steve you should have fired him the Geezer. I hate Octogenarians as much as you hate the Amish and Mormons
   
   Second, I know dick about warm season grasses. Could Bermuda do well in a climate where the night time temps are 60 F and the daytime highs are 80 F all year round or would it go dormant?
   
   I was in Nairobi last year and it seemed to me the grasses were warm season but they were not dormant...and those temperature are pretty much consistent year round.
   
   Any thoughts?

   
   
   
   We've had those temps and cooler now for about 4 weeks. Our bermuda is green, even after a frost on Saturday. If those temps are consistent, I see no problem with it growing. The problem would be is if the soil temps dropped enough to make it go dormant, it would take a long time to have the Bermuda green up and growing to recover from the cold temps. Nice thing about those temps, you aren't growing out of control and can keep up with the growth mowing wise.

   
   
   
   
6. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   11/15/2011 8:11 PM

   Optimal soil temperature is 80º. Depending on the variety, starting at 65º you see significant decrease in growth. Below 50º consistent air temps growth stops. Best growth is when you average 75º air temps. Optimal daytime air temps are between 95º and 100º.
   
   At least that's what I've been told.

   
   
   
   
7. Hardy Andrew

   
   11/16/2011 5:11 AM

   I'm just down the road from Red and have often wondered about Bermuda for bunker surrounds. Particularly on south facing ones. Would interesting to try though. Red let me know how it works HAHA

   
   
   
   
8. Steven Huffstutler

   

   11 posts
   
   11/16/2011 6:11 AM

   You might be better off with Zoysia than bermuda.

   
   
   
   
9. Steve Nelson

   

   0 posts
   
   11/16/2011 7:11 AM

   Red,
   I think what you were seeing was probably kikuyugrass, which is native to the east african highlands. The temps you describe are a lot lke coastal SoCal for 9 months of the year. Bermuda exists here, but isn't really happy because it just doesn't get hot enough. The kikuyu thrives in that temperature range and hence is everywhere from SF Bay to Ensendada despite the fact that probably nobody actually planted it on their courses or parks etc.

   
   
   
   
10. McCallum David K

    
    11/16/2011 7:11 AM

    In our area of the country which is considerably farther north than south Florida the rule of thumb for active growing bermudagrass is a combined high and low of 150 degrees........i.e. 85-65 or some combination thereof.

    
    
    
    
11. Bryan Taylor

    

    0 posts
    
    11/16/2011 9:11 AM

    The temperatures sound a lot like here in Hawaii. Winter low 60's and high 70's/low80's and summer low 70's and high 80's. All the Bermudas do well here and stay green all year long. Now they will really slow down growth and thin out in shaded areas during winter. Almost the majority of the rain hits from October-March with minimal amounts the rest of the year so salt build up is a concern especially with effluent water. Seashore Paspalum does well and thrives better when its cooler here plus will tolerate the salts better.
    
    Bryan Taylor
    Poipu Bay GC

    
    
    
    
12. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    11/16/2011 9:11 AM

    We have learned more about bermuda since we quit overseeding fairways four years ago. It holds color longer than you might expect and comes back quicker as well. We usually get our first frost around Thanksgiving but it can come in October. Our Bullseye bermuda around tees and bunkers goes off color with reduced sunlight even before the frost hits. We had expected 419 to be dormant from November through February with slight green up in March. What we found is even during the winter with the shortest days, going a week without frost and having days in the 70's, color comes back. It may not be thriving but it is certainly acceptable. Our actual dormancy look ends up being from about December 1 to mid to late February with green ups throughout the winter. We are a 1400 foot elevation valley with high 80's to mid 90's all summer. Some of our hottest days (100+) happen in September and October due to Santa Ana conditions. Through the 15 days of November, we are averaging 69 degrees per day and 39 over night. We have had early frost and have lost some color earlier this year. I think you will find bermuda acting differently throughout the country. The temperatures you have described will be fine for bermuda growth. They may not be optimum but it will certainly grow. I do agree with the general rule of growth stopping at 50 degrees. Color is a different issue.

    
    
    
    
13. Andrew Cross

    

    5 posts
    
    11/16/2011 9:11 AM

    kkisaok said: I'm just down the road from Red and have often wondered about Bermuda for bunker surrounds. Particularly on south facing ones. Would interesting to try though. Red let me know how it works HAHA

    
    
    I've been sodding RTF (rhizomotous tall fescue) sod on my bunker faces, they held up awesome this summer with zero hand watering!! They continued to grow throughout the heat when areas next to it we didn't sod just stopped growth completely. Should mention we are a very steeply bunkered Ross design so getting water to stay on faces is darn near impossible.
    
    Might be worth a look!

    
    
    
    
14. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    11/16/2011 11:11 AM

    It may have been Kukulia or whatever. I wish I had actually looked at it closer. I emailed the Hawaiian guy in France and he seemed to think it was likely a form of Bermuda (chromosome count unknown)
    It seemed to me that it was it would be perfect weather for year round bent but the Hawaiian figured it would be a lot easier to keep bent out of Bermuda than vice versa
    
    The furthest north I have seen Bermuda was Penn State but it only grew over the Steam pipe lines. Not good for Onterrible Andrew. Has the "Old Man been down to set up your daily sched yet today?"

    
    
    
    
15. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    11/16/2011 11:11 AM

    Red,
    
    Are you thinking of developing a course near Nairobi?

    
    
    
    
16. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    11/16/2011 12:11 PM

    It's winter there and he has nothing else to do except wonder about the genetic makeup of various warm season grasses.

    
    
    
    
17. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    11/16/2011 3:11 PM

    Here in the South it's not the genetic makeup of the grass I wonder about so much.

    
    
    
    
18. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    11/17/2011 6:11 AM

    alohakane said: Here in the South it's not the genetic makeup of the grass I wonder about so much.

    
    
    
    Some people dream of teeth.

    
    
    
    
19. Hardy Andrew

    
    11/17/2011 7:11 AM

    Has the "Old Man been down to set up your daily sched yet today?"
    
    
    Thanks for the good laugh. He's been out of the picture for 2 seasons now. Diagnosed with Dementia, they have removed all of his authority though he does still live on the property. This job has suddenly become a really good one for that reason alone. Nice to be focused on turf as opposed to his interlocking brick driveway or the leaves on his back patio. Barely even see him, except the odd time he passes by with his chauffeur.