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Cost of education

18 posts
  1. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    10/28/2016 6:10 PM
    It was mentioned in another thread the cost of education versus the salary. I am an advocate for charging the amount for a degree based on the earning potential of that degree. Why should an agronomy, education, or any other lower earning potential degree cost the same as an engineering or any other higher earning potential degree at the same university? A Chevy Cruze costs a lot less than a Corvette. Same manufacturer, different performance.

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  2. Stephen Ravenkamp
    Stephen Ravenkamp avatar
    1 posts
    10/29/2016 5:10 PM
    I would say because it uses the same assets (classrooms, scheduling, administrative costs, teaching slaries, etc).



  3. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/30/2016 12:10 PM
    Christopher Thuer, CGCS said: It was mentioned in another thread the cost of education versus the salary. I am an advocate for charging the amount for a degree based on the earning potential of that degree. Why should an agronomy, education, or any other lower earning potential degree cost the same as an engineering or any other higher earning potential degree at the same university? A Chevy Cruze costs a lot less than a Corvette. Same manufacturer, different performance.


    I can see part of your point, such as degrees that lead one to public service such as education, but and I'm not an advocate of tax breaks (unless the math adds up, which it usually doesn't), but for those that chose those degrees that decide to stick to that field and perform a public service such as educate our children, serve as public defenders, law enforcement, etc. maybe they should either get tax breaks, or low interest rates on their student loans. As for agronomy, that is on us, there are the 6 figure jobs in our business (and I guess the same with the jobs I mentioned as well, when they move into administration, public defenders work their way into bigger law firms?).

    I agree with Steve, cost are going to be the same regardless of the subject being taught, and I'm guessing the people on the Chevy Cruz production line are getting paid a similar salary as those on the Corvette line, the cost difference is going to be in the materials, more cylinders, better brakes, better radio, etc.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  4. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/31/2016 4:10 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Christopher Thuer, CGCS said: It was mentioned in another thread the cost of education versus the salary. I am an advocate for charging the amount for a degree based on the earning potential of that degree. Why should an agronomy, education, or any other lower earning potential degree cost the same as an engineering or any other higher earning potential degree at the same university? A Chevy Cruze costs a lot less than a Corvette. Same manufacturer, different performance.


    I can see part of your point, such as degrees that lead one to public service such as education, but and I'm not an advocate of tax breaks (unless the math adds up, which it usually doesn't), but for those that chose those degrees that decide to stick to that field and perform a public service such as educate our children, serve as public defenders, law enforcement, etc. maybe they should either get tax breaks, or low interest rates on their student loans.

    Mel


    This already happens to a "degree". It is common for counties to forgiven student loans for law graduates that spend 10 years serving as a public defender.



  5. Kenneth Ingram
    Kenneth Ingram avatar
    18 posts
    10/31/2016 8:10 AM
    Chris this is becoming a reality. Google "Differential Tuition." Our university (UMD) has implemented it in a couple of programs like engineering and computer science. The argument has not been career earnings potential but the effect of the cost of updating the technology in some fields make those programs more expensive and the costs should be reflected in tuition. Within my college (Agriculture & Natural Resources) , our Landscape Architecture Program has a slightly higher tuition charge because those students get a workspace in studio's with advanced computers, giant printers, etc. They get new computers every couple of years. It's expensive. For years some classes had lab fees required. Now the trend is increased tuition as well. Kenneth Ingram, UMD.



  6. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    40 posts
    10/31/2016 2:10 PM
    Greetings:

    It is the U.S. Governments responsibility to educate all students who wish to further their education at no cost to the student. Also, to educate any youngster here in America illegally. All we have to do is stop giving money to other countries.

    Capt.Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  7. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    10/31/2016 5:10 PM
    Christopher Thuer, CGCS said: It was mentioned in another thread the cost of education versus the salary. I am an advocate for charging the amount for a degree based on the earning potential of that degree. Why should an agronomy, education, or any other lower earning potential degree cost the same as an engineering or any other higher earning potential degree at the same university? A Chevy Cruze costs a lot less than a Corvette. Same manufacturer, different performance.



    Who will pay the difference between what is charged for a degree, and the cost of providing that degree?

    The reason it should cost the same is that the free market should dictate how society spends its resources. Earning potential for a career is an indicator of the value that society places on the work that person does. Reducing the cost of a degree would also likely further reduce the future earning potential of that career path. As the cost of the degree falls, more will choose that path, flooding the job market in that industry with supply. As the supply increases the salaries will fall further.



  8. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/31/2016 6:10 PM
    Regardless of who pays for secondary education, the cost of that education is on a path of diminishing returns - for the students and the educational institutions. Tuition fees have outpaced inflation, annual wage increases, and the ROI for the students continues to be extended. Similar to heath insurance. Both are unsustainable and both will eventually crash unless the costs are reeled in.

    I have been driving past a few colleges/universities on a frequent basis the past 15 years. I do not recall, literally, a time when there was not significant construction/expansion at each college - including the college my son attends. We just received a notice of a "modest" 4.4% tuition hike for 2017.



  9. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    10/31/2016 9:10 PM
    My daughter is a freshman at the #1 undergrad engineering school in the US, Rose-Hulman. $63,000 per year for all fees. She will most likely graduate making more than I currently make after 35 years as a super. Their average starting salary for grads this year was well over $60,000. Luckily she got a very large academic scholarship and need based grant due to me having $0 to assist her with. She will still have to borrow over $120K.

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  10. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    10/31/2016 9:10 PM
    My son had over $240,000.00 in student loans after finishing four years of dental school. He paid it back in less than four years. I can't imagine how many years it would take an Art or Philosophy major to pay that back.



  11. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    11/1/2016 5:11 AM
    There is a common discussion amongst educators that kids nowadays don't see the value of a college education. They are looking more towards gaining the right experience to excel in their jobs. Many employers also feel the same way and are looking to hire someone on the ground floor and train them into the position. I know this doesn't work in all professions, but it does with most.

    Likewise, how many times do you hear of college graduates with a specific degree that end up working in a totally unrelated field? How much value does their degree hold in this case?

    The GCSAA (I think it was them) did a study a few years back that followed the pay of two students that entered college at the same time. The two-year Associate student earned more money for a significant time down the road compared to the Bachelor student. The reason being was the Associate degree student had two years more experience than the Bachelor degree student. In addition, the Associate student also has less to near zero debt. Experience pays, degrees don't.

    I also feel that salary is 100% up to the employee. That $200,000, 4 year degree from Ohio State does nothing if you don't put forth the effort to better yourself. It also does nothing for someone not willing to move to where the money is.



  12. Corey Eastwood
    Corey Eastwood avatar
    80 posts
    11/1/2016 11:11 AM
    I guess it's my age but what ever happened to one working their way through college.

    Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired

  13. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/1/2016 11:11 PM
    Corey Eastwood, CGCS said: I guess it's my age but what ever happened to one working their way through college.


    I still hear some people do it, but I think is some classes that my son has been involved with last year and maybe this year, and depending on the major, it isn't as easy as it might have been.

    For an example, in one class there was a group project, it was tough enough trying for the group to get together to work on it just working around their class schedules. Although with the new technology, such as google docs, they were able to share the work and do some editing and suggesting on their down times.

    I do know we hire students to work part time, don't know if what we pay them put much of a dent into the cost of tuition. So I guess that is why students today tend to take out more loans.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  14. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    11/2/2016 3:11 PM
    Some thoughts from a dad who helped put 3 kids through college in the last 10 years, and the forth just started this spring.
    1. Most kids should be able to start college with one year or more of college credit at the start. Mine had between 1 and 2 years. The sooner a kid knows where they want to go to college they can navigate the in coming credit game to help them save money. My son worked directly with admissions to make sure Dual Credit/AP/Expanded Options classes would be a accepted and at what level. It does not do a kid that much good if they enter college with a ton of elective credit. My daughter just started this fall with 2 years of college credit earned in high school with about 1/2 applied toward required classes.

    3 ACT/SAT tests still matter more than grades. Grades are important but high test scores turn heads, and kids can take these test several times to improve scores.

    4. All a college degree really does is help you get your first job, the rest is on you. Its important to know the percentage of the most recent graduates that are working and how much they earn. This is a measure of a school's ROI. Also where do the graduates go to work?

    5. In-State is not always cheapest. None of my kids when to school in-State. One went to a private school 1,200 miles away, the other 3 choose out of state public schools that were cheaper than in-state in Oregon. If your Kid wants to be a future engineer and or scientist (and isn't going to Rose-Hulman) check this school out http://www.sdsmt.edu/About/Why-Mines/Great-Value/. My son just graduated from SDSM&T this spring in 3 years and is now in a paid graduate research position at University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, working toward his PHD. He loves pure science and is pursuing medical research. The smallness of SDSM&T allowed him to get experience that a large college would not afford a undergraduate.



  15. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    11/4/2016 7:11 PM
    Jess took a lot of AP and college equivalent courses in high school for college credit. The problem is that due to the extremely high standards of this school, she was not awarded any credit for those high school classes except for Spanish. She does have a work study job as a student manager of the women's basketball team. With her extensive grade school basketball background she easily got it as her first choice of jobs. She is playing softball but as an NCAA D3 school there is no athletic participation assistance.

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  16. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    40 posts
    11/7/2016 6:11 PM
    Corey;

    I agree with you about he/she paying the cost of higher college education. In my post above yours I said the Government was responsible for paying for education. I was not serious about that. I was hoping to get into a debate on this but no one took the bait.

    Our friend Mr. Peter Bowman said his son paid off his loan in a few short years.

    Two weeks ago I voted and when I left town hall my bridge "Teeth" fell out. I went to the dentist and she worked on it a little and said I needed a root canal. Fortunately, I was able to get one that afternoon. $1175.00. Next day I went back to my dentist and she was taking impressions on my new bridge. When finished, I asked her if she would like a few dollars and she said sure, A $1000.00 will do for now. When I got home, I looked at the bill and I will owe another $2500.00. So, $4675.00 it will cost me and I have no dental insurance.It may be little easier for someone in the medical field to pay off the college loan a little quicker and I'm sure he/she has to attend more than four years of college. As I think back, my tuition for the University of MA $75.00 per semester or the year, I forget which but that was pretty inexpensive,

    I miss the golf we played together in TX, CA, FL and other places. I never did beat you and your 1 iron. Matter of fact, I lost.05 to Mr. Bowman on my own golf course. You gents from CA are pretty good golfers.

    You must be happy about your Oakland Raiders football team.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  17. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/7/2016 6:11 PM
    Ronald Kirkman said: Corey;

    I agree with you about he/she paying the cost of higher college education. In my post above yours I said the Government was responsible for paying for education. I was not serious about that. I was hoping to get into a debate on this but no one took the bait.

    Our friend Mr. Peter Bowman said his son paid off his loan in a few short years.

    Two weeks ago I voted and when I left town hall my bridge "Teeth" fell out. I went to the dentist and she worked on it a little and said I needed a root canal. Fortunately, I was able to get one that afternoon. $1175.00. Next day I went back to my dentist and she was taking impressions on my new bridge. When finished, I asked her if she would like a few dollars and she said sure, A $1000.00 will do for now. When I got home, I looked at the bill and I will owe another $2500.00. So, $4675.00 it will cost me and I have no dental insurance.It may be little easier for someone in the medical field to pay off the college loan a little quicker and I'm sure he/she has to attend more than four years of college. As I think back, my tuition for the University of MA $75.00 per semester or the year, I forget which but that was pretty inexpensive,

    I miss the golf we played together in TX, CA, FL and other places. I never did beat you and your 1 iron. Matter of fact, I lost.05 to Mr. Bowman on my own golf course. You gents from CA are pretty good golfers.

    You must be happy about your Oakland Raiders football team.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA


    Nice to hear from you, Capt.

    Next time you need dental work, look him up. Bowman Dental in Walpole, NH. I know he's reasonable in his rates, and he has a soft spot for people in the golf industry. He and I played your old Fellows Balls CC in Vermont together back in September, me for the first time. Fun course.

    What's a 1 iron?



  18. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    40 posts
    11/7/2016 10:11 PM
    Mr. Bowman;

    It seems like yesterday but it has been 59 years since I was the superintendent at Bellows Falls C.C. in VT. It is beautiful country as is Walpole, NH. But, a little to far for me to go to the dentist up there. OH, it is not Fellow Balls C.C. but I think you know that.

    A one iron is what Corey used to hit now and then. The word is that he and The Good Lord are the only two that can hit that club.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



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