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Anyone catch "Men who built America" on History Channel

15 posts
  1. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/11/2012 9:11 PM
    Finished watching the series "Men who built America" on the History channel. I thought it was interesting how those entrepreneurs took chances built vasts wealth, and then in the 1890's the working people were barely making enough to live on, the workplace was dangerous. Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie pumped huge amounts of money into the campaign of 1896 to get McKinley elected over Bryant who talked about taking down the large companies, (Republicans vs. Democrats). The when the business owners worried about Roosevelt, they got him on the ticket as VP to get him out of the way, then McKinley gets assassinated. Ford started producing cheap automobiles and paying a living wage. I just thought it was all interesting.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  2. Harrel Andrew J
    Harrel Andrew J avatar
    11/12/2012 8:11 AM
    I watched the series and thought it was great. There are a lot of lessons to be learned if a person takes the time to think about all of it.
    I am really looking forward to the next series "Mankind the story of all of us"



  3. Trevor Monreal
    Trevor Monreal avatar
    5 posts
    11/12/2012 4:11 PM
    Come-on now...
    We all know they "didn't build that"
    Somebody else made all that happen.



  4. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    11/13/2012 5:11 AM
    Trevor Monreal said: Come-on now...
    We all know they "didn't build that"
    Somebody else made all that happen.


    Way to grab low-hanging fruit, Trevor. Break a sweat?

    Here's what more than 2 seconds of thought looks like..

    Obama's comment was a riff from a debate Warren and Brown were having in Massachusetts about the GOP blaming the Dems for trying to start "class warfare"

    [quote">Warren: "You built a factory out there? Good for you," she says.
    "But I want to be clear: You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did."

    She continued on taxes:

    [quote">Warren: "Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

    The over-arching comment here is that if the very wealthy fundamentally don't agree that taxes are going to the right thing (i.e. social programs, entitlements, infrastructure) then they are going to get around paying them by using loopholes in the system. They've decided, on their own, that they don't have to pay their fair share if they can find a way not to. That's what Obama was riffing on. From that, it took a minute of editing and a hungry conservative machine to turn it into what Trevor, as a good soldier does, trotted out...again.

    Cherry picking quote's is silly bidnizz because it erodes the foundation of your argument.
    When dems did it to Romney, it was just as dumb and useless. Whenever The 47% gaffe, and the "I like to fire people" gaffe were used, it sounded desperate and grasping, like the 'you didn't build that' clip. They mean nothing when they're taken out of context except for people who want to be incensed by it. So, basically far leaning libs or cons.



  5. Jack Stephens
    Jack Stephens avatar
    0 posts
    11/13/2012 9:11 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Finished watching the series "Men who built America" on the History channel. I thought it was interesting how those entrepreneurs took chances built vasts wealth, and then in the 1890's the working people were barely making enough to live on, the workplace was dangerous. Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie pumped huge amounts of money into the campaign of 1896 to get McKinley elected over Bryant who talked about taking down the large companies, (Republicans vs. Democrats). The when the business owners worried about Roosevelt, they got him on the ticket as VP to get him out of the way, then McKinley gets assassinated. Ford started producing cheap automobiles and paying a living wage. I just thought it was all interesting.

    Mel


    Mel,

    I wouldn't put too much stock in the historical accuracy from any production of the History Channel. There are certainly many elements of truth in the series but its really of pop version of the past. I would encourage you to check out a copy of "The Myth of the Robber Barons" by Burt Folsom or the lecture on the subject available on YouTube. Before we get all wild-eyed about Folsom's post at conservative Hillsdale College, we should realize that multiple interpretations of the period and its actors are argued by serious scholars. The period, much like our current climate is viewed through partisan lenses leading to confirmation bias as described by Naseem Taleb in "The Black Swan". As a history major who was in pursuit of a doctorate before making a career of the golf business, I feel this is one area I can confidently express my opinion with some authority.

    Another interesting factoid, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" according to some scholars is an allegory inspired by events and people of the era in question. Rockefeller as the Wizard, the yellow brick road as the gold standard, William Jennings Bryant as the Cowardly Lion. This is not a widely accepted theory but it sure makes rewatching the film more interesting, kind of like the whole Pink Floyd "Dark Side of Oz" meme.

    Brad Stephens
    Assistant Superintendent-King and Bear, World Golf Village Resort.



  6. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/13/2012 10:11 AM
    Thanks Brad, I'll have to check that out.

    While those guys looked to be almost evil in the portal of their treatment of workers, I would cut them some slack as that was the norm in those days.

    Interesting take on the Wizard of Oz, one never knows what inspires someone to create and of course it is how one perceives things.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  7. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    11/13/2012 12:11 PM
    for you Brad.



  8. Jack Stephens
    Jack Stephens avatar
    0 posts
    11/13/2012 7:11 PM
    Steven Kurta said: for you Brad.


    Hyperbole at its finest!

    I initially planned on Milton Friedman authoring my response but instead my better angels advised myself to take aim.

    Whereas unions preserve special considerations for its members in exclusion of qualified non union workers in the same labor field,where government legislation such as the Davis Bacon Act were enacted to limit non union black labor on federal projects in the South, whereby the elimination of "child labor" increased poverty for many who, keyword at the time, were depended upon to help provide for the family. History they say is a double-edged sword but they sure didnt teach that in school.

    How many citizens were left unemployed due to minimal wage laws that limited the number of jobs in proportion to the available workforce. The filling station was no longer able to employ young blacks Tom, Dick , and Harry at 4 dollars a day each, as new regulations required a 6 dollar a day wage but with only 12 dollars budgeted. Now productivity and flexibility within the business decreases and young Tom sits unemployed, unable to save in hopes of opening his own food stand at the farmer's market. Skills and savings never mature for young Tom, leaving him at a competitive disadvantage to his peers. We all know that one cannot raise a family on a minimum wage position but we should also admit that these types of jobs are usually filled with low skilled young people, retirees, immigrants, or those supplementing the family income. Minimum wage workers are in no way resigned to a permanent station in life but given an opportunity to gain valuable skills necessary to increase their productivity and value later in life.

    How many of us work 40 hours or receive compensation for overtime. Does your lower skilled workers, who through whatever historical disadvantage he or she may be a product of, earn the same wage as a more skilled person performing the same task? In all likelyhood, does a woman who may have taken maternity leave and misses time at work due to child care issues have the same productivity as a single man with no family responsibilities given they are performing the same duties?

    As the left loves to say, things are more nuanced than their superficial appearance. And as to end in cliche, peel back the layers and there is always more to the story.



  9. Rosenthal Gregg
    Rosenthal Gregg avatar
    11/13/2012 10:11 PM
    Did they spend even a moment to mention Henry Ford was the biggest bigot and anti Zionist man ever in America per WW1 & WW2? He was pro Hitler oh they just happened to leave that out, just wanted the him in his youth to look good for the model A? That does not make him a good man by any means! In my mind he was the leading bigot in America in his time! A role model for years to come, sad reality of the world! Truth is a difficult thing to get over and those that present history can bend it to their own reality if they wish too! As the History channel unfortunately decided to present things!!! Sad but it is what it was, We should be careful not to allow our children to learn a twisted presentation of the true history of our Nation and the World, I worked for a man who survived Auschwitz he made me promise to make sure it never happened again! A promise I will always remember!

    Gregg Rosenthal



  10. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    11/14/2012 4:11 AM
    Jack Stephens said:
    things are more nuanced than their superficial appearance.




    At the very least, we can agree that everyone has their personal definition of what 'human rights' are.



  11. Thomas Brown
    Thomas Brown avatar
    0 posts
    11/14/2012 7:11 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Finished watching the series "Men who built America" on the History channel. I thought it was interesting how those entrepreneurs took chances built vasts wealth, and then in the 1890's the working people were barely making enough to live on, the workplace was dangerous. Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie pumped huge amounts of money into the campaign of 1896 to get McKinley elected over Bryant who talked about taking down the large companies, (Republicans vs. Democrats). The when the business owners worried about Roosevelt, they got him on the ticket as VP to get him out of the way, then McKinley gets assassinated. Ford started producing cheap automobiles and paying a living wage. I just thought it was all interesting.

    Mel


    Mel,

    I thought it was interesting and entertaining as well. As to its historical accuracy, I can watch an Oliver Stone movie without being swayed one way or another politically. One thing I didn't appreciate is how they stretch the show by reiterating what I just saw prior to the commercial.

    Tom



  12. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/14/2012 8:11 AM
    Tom,

    I agree with that, I know I'm getting old, but I can sure remember what I saw going into a commercial and when the commercial ends. Wish they would have used that time more wisely to maybe make points better or to show both sides of an issue.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  13. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/14/2012 10:11 AM
    History is loaded with little known facts about some of the big names of the past. Charles Lindberg was a Hitler fan and the guy that built Mount Rushmore was reported to have been very close if not a member of the KKK. With both being well before my time it is hard to know if any of these accusations are actually true. We are sort of at the mercy of the writer or the bias of the historians. All I can realy know is that our country would not have been the same without the brains of the Ford's, Rockefellers, JP Morgans etc. One of the greatest genius of all times was Tesla. He actually had more to do with electricity than Edison. He was so far ahead of his time he was considered crazy by many. He id most of the leg work on many of our most important inventions but others such as Edison got all the credit. Tesla died a broken man who may have been close to insanity at his death. Who knows how many of his far out ideas were brought to maturity by our military?



  14. Robert Searle
    Robert Searle avatar
    0 posts
    11/14/2012 11:11 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Finished watching the series "Men who built America" on the History channel. I thought it was interesting how those entrepreneurs took chances built vasts wealth, and then in the 1890's the working people were barely making enough to live on, the workplace was dangerous. Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie pumped huge amounts of money into the campaign of 1896 to get McKinley elected over Bryant who talked about taking down the large companies, (Republicans vs. Democrats). The when the business owners worried about Roosevelt, they got him on the ticket as VP to get him out of the way, then McKinley gets assassinated. Ford started producing cheap automobiles and paying a living wage. I just thought it was all interesting.

    Mel



    I cought part of the railroad one with Vanderbilt getting fooled by his foes who watered down the stock. Was there anything on John Roebling and the building of the Brooklyn Bridge? I'm reading "The Great Bridge" by David McCullough and It is a facsinating story.



  15. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/14/2012 11:11 AM
    Sandy,
    I remember Tesla, I wonder if he died near penniless because he tore up the patents so Westinghouse could get the financial backing for the Niagara power plant. Of course that was to beat rival Morgan and Edison. In the end Morgan took over Westinghouse, dropped Edison's name from General Electric.

    Robert,
    I didn't see anything about the Brooklyn Bridge but I guess it could have been in one of the early episodes? I missed the part about Vanderbilt and the watered down stock, I saw where he had held the key river crossing at Albany.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

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