Rye grass tough to cut in the spring?

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

2/22/2017 1:02 PM

Has anyone noticed rye in the spring up north being much more difficult to cut cleanly than other cool season grass?

-Roland

Christopher Thuer

101 posts

2/22/2017 5:02 PM

Yes. Every year for the 36 years I have been mowing.

Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

2/23/2017 10:02 AM

Christopher Thuer, CGCS said: Yes. Every year for the 36 years I have been mowing.

Thanks. Have you found that a mower can be set up to cut a single sheet of copy paper, send it out and observe it cutting blue, bent, and poa cleanly but shredding rye?

Christopher Thuer

101 posts

2/25/2017 10:02 AM

That is exactly what happens. It can be very frustrating.

Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

2/27/2017 5:02 AM

Thank you. Anyone have any theories to explain this?

Ronald Conard

4 posts

2/27/2017 7:02 AM

Roland M Mcphearson said: Thank you. Anyone have any theories to explain this?

I seem to recall that ryegrass has a higher level of silica content in the leaves. Whatever the case it is simply a morphological difference between species. The old ryegrasses were a real bitch to cut but breeding has help with the problem but has not completely eliminated it.

Larry Allan

0 posts

2/27/2017 8:02 AM

Ronald Conard, CGCS said:
Roland M Mcphearson said: Thank you. Anyone have any theories to explain this?

I seem to recall that ryegrass has a higher level of silica content in the leaves. Whatever the case it is simply a morphological difference between species. The old ryegrasses were a real bitch to cut but breeding has help with the problem but has not completely eliminated it.

Higher amount of Lignin. One of my few memories from school

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

3/10/2017 5:03 AM

Larry Allan said:
Higher amount of Lignin. One of my few memories from school

"Lignin was first mentioned in 1813 by the Swiss botanist A. P. de Candolle, who described it as a fibrous, tasteless material, insoluble in water and alcohol but soluble in weak alkaline solutions, and which can be precipitated from solution using acid."
-Wikipedia

Can anyone point to data that shows lignin content in rye compared to other turf grasses?

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/10/2017 8:03 AM

Roland M Mcphearson said:
Larry Allan said:
Higher amount of Lignin. One of my few memories from school

"Lignin was first mentioned in 1813 by the Swiss botanist A. P. de Candolle, who described it as a fibrous, tasteless material, insoluble in water and alcohol but soluble in weak alkaline solutions, and which can be precipitated from solution using acid."
-Wikipedia

Can anyone point to data that shows lignin content in rye compared to other turf grasses?

That's an interesting question. Does someone not believe rye is more difficult to cut and they need data? I seem to recall it was due to silica in the leaves but Red's college days may have been more tame than mine.

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

3/10/2017 8:03 AM

Ronald Conard, CGCS said: Does someone not believe rye is more difficult to cut and they need data?

I would like data to help me figure this all out. I never experienced shredding grass during many years of maintaining mowers in the south. Even rye in the spring cut cleanly down there. Never noticed shredding with zoysia or paspallum which are relatively high in silica. I'm still new to the northern scene and this shredding rye in the spring business is new to me.

Ronald Conard

4 posts

3/10/2017 9:03 AM

Roland M Mcphearson said:
Ronald Conard, CGCS said: Does someone not believe rye is more difficult to cut and they need data?

I would like data to help me figure this all out. I never experienced shredding grass during many years of maintaining mowers in the south. Even rye in the spring cut cleanly down there. Never noticed shredding with zoysia or paspallum which are relatively high in silica. I'm still new to the northern scene and this shredding rye in the spring business is new to me.

Ok... got it. In the south the seeding rates are so high on ryegrass that the plant remains relatively juvenile so the plant is easier to cut for whatever reason right?

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

3/11/2017 6:03 AM

Yes. And I meant to say "even rye in the fall when overseeded (equavalent to spring up north) cuts cleanly down there".

So a possible explanation is that rye up north is mature (more than one year old) and contains more lignin than both immature overseeded rye and mature blue, bent, poa.

So, data on lignin content is needed. Preferably at different points in the season and life cycle.

Larry Allan

0 posts

3/11/2017 10:03 AM

Roland M Mcphearson said: Yes. And I meant to say "even rye in the fall when overseeded (equavalent to spring up north) cuts cleanly down there".

So a possible explanation is that rye up north is mature (more than one year old) and contains more lignin than both immature overseeded rye and mature blue, bent, poa.

So, data on lignin content is needed. Preferably at different points in the season and life cycle.

If Larry Stowell is following this, he might have what you are looking for.

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

5/24/2018 8:05 AM

Anyone have current contact info for Larry Stowell?

Thanks,
Roland

James Schmid

1 posts

5/24/2018 1:05 PM

Roland M Mcphearson said: Anyone have current contact info for Larry Stowell?

Thanks,
Roland

https://www.paceturf.org/public/contact

Larry Stowell

0 posts

5/29/2018 5:05 PM

Roland and I talked today. I had an idea that he is going to look into and I am sure he will report back if anything makes sense.

Andy Jorgensen

1 posts

5/30/2018 5:05 AM

I don't know what kind of mower you run, but Toro mentions this in their Operator's Manuals. I'd check your attitude.

"Aggressiveness of Cut
Cutting unit Aggressiveness of Cut has a significant impact
on the performance of the cutting unit. Aggressiveness of
Cut refers to the angle of the bedknife relative to the ground
(Figure 13).

The best cutting unit setup is dependent on your turf
conditions and desired results. Experience with the cutting
unit on your turf will determine the best setting to use.
Aggressiveness of cut may be adjusted throughout the cutting
season to allow for various turf conditions.

In general, less to normal aggressive settings are more
appropriate for warm season grasses (Bermuda, Paspalum,
Zoysia) while cool season grasses (Bent, Bluegrass, Rye) may
require normal to more aggressive setups. More aggressive
setups cut more grass off by allowing the spinning reel to pull
more grass up into the bedknife."

Charles Lafferty

0 posts

5/30/2018 5:05 AM

It is during the seed stalk formation. That is what gives the shredded look to the grass blades. goes away when heat returns

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

11/8/2018 7:11 AM

With input from you guys and a local turf guy I have come to the conclusion that rye in the spring, during seed stalk formation, has a higher lignin content then at other times during the season, and higher lignin content than other grasses. (The high lignin content may stiffen the rye/stalks to get those seeds higher and increase dispersion. A result of natural selection).

I've noticed that during the rye "shredding" season, rotary mowers yield a much cleaner cut than do reel mowers, eliminating the shredding. So, the solution is to use rotaries during that time, budget and mower HOC capability permitting. Or get rid of the rye.

Thanks all!

Roland McPhearson

9 posts

6/17/2019 8:06 AM

Update...

We mowed our problematic areas (where we have rye in the perimeter cut) at 1" as usual this spring. But we did it with a rotary mower instead of a reel mower. I did not notice any shredding as I have every previous spring. We switched back to a reel mower around the beginning of June.

Cheers

Corey Eastwood

80 posts

6/17/2019 11:06 AM

Ditto on the rotary. Switched back to reels after two or three weeks.

Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired

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