Removing moisture barriers around greens Cancel The title field is required!

1. Jeff Lloyd

   

   0 posts
   
   2/12/2017 10:02 AM

   I took a great class last week and wanted to try some of what the instructor was talking about. He spoke about the greens liner and how water gets trapped in low-lying areas. My question is what is the best way to remove the liner in those areas? I have heard of guys cutting them with chain saws but didn't get a clear picture of that. Just wanted see get some feed back on what other guys have found to be the best solution. Thanks

   
   
   
   
2. Jack Tripp

   

   3 posts
   
   2/12/2017 11:02 AM

   Can you tell us which class it was and who the instructor was? Did they recommend removing them all the way around the green or just in low areas?
   
   I always wished we had them and would help the turf around the collars from drying out. Maybe I'm glad we don't.

   
   
   
   
3. Jeff Lloyd

   

   0 posts
   
   2/12/2017 2:02 PM

   It was the soil oxygen class from the guy from ISTRIC. They were only talking about removing it where your problem areas are. We have a lot of greens that have low areas or bird baths that have black layer issues especially from November to April when the ultradwarf isn't really growing. It would be a really big process to strip the sod and lower the collar that way and that doesn't always fix my problem due to poor construction. Some of these areas only 5-8 inches of mix and no smile drain. I would love to get a turf planner and fix them that way, and heard of going over those areas with the dry eject to try to lift them. I have heard of old school guys cutting thru them and removing them on the low-end of the greens.

   
   
   
   
4. Steven Agazzi

   

   0 posts
   
   2/13/2017 5:02 AM

   I had that the exact problem. We just dug up the liner outside the greens cavity in the problem areas. Cut that portion out. Areas dried up and black layer went away.

   
   
   
   
5. David Stout

   

   0 posts
   
   2/13/2017 8:02 AM

   Yep, just excavate outside of the greens cavity and cut away with a razor knife. Not a fan of them at all, I have yet to see an example of them working as advertised. Since you seem to have some construction issues and know you have low areas, I'd take a hard look at irrigation surrounding the green. We routinely check and still end up with a perimeter head, bunker station, or some other head where the arc has moved or it needs nozzled down to not hit the green. Also, I find our black layer problem is worse in the summer than winter. Never have an issue in the winter, where are you located?

   
   
   
   
6. Joshua Sawyer

   

   0 posts
   
   2/13/2017 8:02 AM

   I tried what you are talking about a couple of years ago--breaking thru the barrier with a chainsaw as a 'ground saw'. I went as far as prying out the channels and backfilling with bagged profile. So-so results. No doubt the saw works well, but you will trash a bar and chain in a hurry. I can't say I saw much improvement.
   
   What did work is the use of PC Drainage in these areas. Anywhere we needed drainage, but would either have been fighting grade or need to blow up the world to correct, we pulled in a few runs of the capillary ropes. I have some at about 4 years old and they are still working well. They do rely on a sand channel to pull moisture to the rope, so I expect the drainage to slow over time.
   
   The drainage doesn't remove water at an astonishing rate, but I have firm surfaces with healthy turf where I used to have muddy, weak bermudagrass. Not a cheap process, but better than digging up the world. If you need a fix that doesn't involve lifting turf, this worked for me.

   
   
   
   
7. Corey Eastwood

   

   80 posts
   
   2/13/2017 11:02 AM

   ISTRC has recommended this for many years. I saw a course where they cut the membrane in ten ft.sections. Then clamped 2X4's on one end an pulled it out with a tractor. Just on the low non draining areas. Very little damage but time consuming.

   
   Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired
   
   
8. Jeff Lloyd

   

   0 posts
   
   2/13/2017 12:02 PM

   Located just outside augusta ga. My guess is in the summer the grasses are more active and uptake the excess moisture. It seems I spend more time this time of year keeping those areas alive than on the rest of the greens. Just frustrating spending all my time keeping 1,000 sq ft alive instead of improving the other 3 acres. I know the hard way to fix them, it's just hard with my crew size and how busy we are.

   
   
   
   
9. Paul Webb

   

   0 posts
   
   2/19/2017 8:02 AM

   We had this issue with Bentgrass greens in Memphis laying wet. We took a generator and a corded reciprocating saw with a 16-18" blade. We cut out the undesirable areas 6-8 feet sections at a time and were able to pull them out with 2 people using needle nose vise-grips. It was time-consuming but there was no disruption to the surrounding areas. Good luck!